Ideal 308291 Hollow Point Mold

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  • Last Post 18 February 2014
Jackpine posted this 06 February 2014

I am relatively new to bullet casting, having cast with no more than a couple thousand bullets total from eight or ten different molds.  I have learned a great deal by reading and learning on this forum but this is my first post. I recently acquired the mold listed and cannot find any specific info on it.  I assume the hollow point was added after the original making of the mold, but that is just my assumption.  I also assume that the depth of the hollow point is set by the relationship of the little extension on the hollow point plug to either the little stud in the mold or the screw head, but again, my assumption.  I would appreciate any advice, instruction and tips on use of this mold and educated opinions on its origin and/or customization. I have attempted to add picture of the mold and hope it comes thru. Thanks, Jackpine

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 07 February 2014

i am not much of a mold historian, but here is a few thoughts on operation.

i dont think any adjustment for depth is intended. the little stud is just captured under the screw head, least slack is good.

keep the hp pin taper very hot, it cools quickly to give wrinkles. no torch, it could warp.

i sold my hp molds; hollow pointer gadgets are available. oh, i do have a lee hollow point 357, i keep it for laughs. or maybe no one bid on it ?( g ) .

ken

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gnoahhh posted this 07 February 2014

In my experience with an Ideal hollow point mold (a 311466), there is a little set screw on the shank of the hollow point stud to allow for changes in depth. I can't tell from the pic if yours has that or not. Mine is a regular PIA to use. Like Ken said, keeping it hot to prevent irregular cavities is difficult. I found that a faster casting rhythm once things got up to temperature allowed for about a 30-40% acceptance rate (hence keeping the HP stud hot), but then other gremlins pop up- like lead smearing under the sprue plate, etc. It tries my patience!

The only reason I keep the mold around is that it is a darned accurate bullet in a couple of my rifles, more so than the non-HP version of the same mold. I haven't shot anything animate with the HP version of the 311466, but I suspect it would work ok. I just prefer heavier .30's for that, with wide flat noses.

The hassles involved with this design are the only thing stopping me from having my 311284 hollow pointed, though I would dearly love to do so.

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Jackpine posted this 07 February 2014

Thanks to both of you for your replies.  I am attaching another picture that will hopefully show a better relationship of the hollow point plug to the pin and screw, which I think could act as “stops” to adjust the hollow point depth.

The overall length of the bullet would be approx. .950 inches.  If the pin is placed at maximum depth, the hollow point cavity will be about .400 inches deep.  If the small pin on the block is used as a stop, the depth of the cavity will be approx .315 inches deep, and if the screw is used as a stop, the depth would be about .180 inches.  The hollow point “plug” is .125 inch diameter.

Any other input would be appreciated.   Thanks again, Jackpine  

Larry Gibson posted this 07 February 2014

That is a standard Ideal/Lyman HP mould. Depth of the HP is not readily adjustable. I've worked with several such Ideal/Lyman HPs over the years and find them quite satisfactory. However, I've learned to shorten the HP stem so the HP is 1/8 - 3/16” deep and to use a soft malleable alloy for controlled expansion. If used as is with COW alloy for example the front of the bullet will expand crack and readily slough off. That should be an excellent performer in any .30 and some .31 cal rifles if the right HP and alloy is used with muzzle velocities of 1800 - 2200 fps.

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

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gnoahhh posted this 07 February 2014

Being a stranger to using HP bullets for hunting, what would be an alloy/bhn suitable for expansion versus shattering? (In the 1800-2000fps muzzle velocity range.)

To the OP: the pin and screw head on the bottom of the mold block are for capturing the HP pin. The little projection on the side of the HP pin slides under the screw head and is stopped from turning too far and falling out by the pin next to it.

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delmarskid1 posted this 07 February 2014

To keep the pin hot during casting I have rigged a stand from coat hanger and left the pin sit in the low flame of a propane bottle torch while doing the “stuff” between casts. Once I get rolling along things keep warm enough.

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RicinYakima posted this 08 February 2014

Jackpine, That may or may not be the original pin for that mould. Check to see that the one diget number stamped on the pin shaft is the same as the single diget number on the side. That is the one besides the cherry number and mould number. Mould number is 311291, cherry number 296 (example) and pin number would be 7 (example). The HP pin fits solidly into the hole, and is twisted so that the small 90 degree pin fits under the screw and against the pin on the block. Ric

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CB posted this 08 February 2014

That is one of my favorite 30-30 bullet designs, with or without the hollowpoint. As the others have already said, the hollowpoint depth is not intended to be adjustable, and the pin needs to be locked into place, tucked under the head of the screw. I have used cast hollowpoints to hunt, and in the 30-30 velocity range. I doubt I'd cast them anywhere over perhaps 12-14 bhn. Hollowpoints should also not be water dropped to harden them, doing so could make them brittle. Drop the “as cast” bullets on a soft cloth and let them air cool. Brittle hollowpoints fragment, and don't penetrate well at all. My experiences with Ideal/Lyman hollowpoint molds make me suggest that you cast with this mold solo, I've had really poor results trying to run hollowpoint molds in tandem, but do set a brisk pace to keep everything hot, The pin in particular cools down really quickly, and that usually spoils the quality of your casts.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 08 February 2014

i guess i should say that one of my most enjoyable ” small game ” shoots was using the lyman 224438 hollowpoint in 22 backstop lead at about 1300 fps ...on rats ... VAPORIZE was about it.

what does it mean when my fondest memories involve doing MEAN things ??

ken, me an my not-so guilt

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Jackpine posted this 08 February 2014

Thanks to all for the tips and suggestions on use.   Ric, as I said earlier, the casting experience is new to me and I really appreciate your specifics, but that leads me to more questions.  One of the mold halves is stamped 308291 just below the slot that the handle fits into.  Just below that, is stamped 294.  On the same side, above the mold handle slot is the number 46.  The number 46 is also stamped on the pin.  I guess that means that the mold is as it was originally built.  So my next question is what does that mean as compared to a situation where the numbers do not match.  Also, I assume when you use the term “cherry” referring to the number, it refers to the cherry that was used when the mold was originally made.  Am I correct in assuming that there could be many other molds with the exact same stampings, other molds with the same stampings except not set up for hollow point and other molds with a different cherry number.  (just curious)   Looking at the pin and the difference in wear of the bluing, your description of how the pin fits into the mold, relative to the pin in the block, screw head and 90 degree pin on the hollow point pin matches how this mold has been used.  The way it is set up, the depth of the hollow point would be about .355 inches.  That seems like an awfully deep hollow point, but that is just my gut reaction.    Ken,  You asked what your past experience with the rats “meant.” Having grown up on an old fashioned dairy farm in southern Minnesota, my response is that it only means you were “effective."  Nice work.   Thanks again to all, Jackpine

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CB posted this 08 February 2014

You are correct, your mold appears to be complete, as originally manufactured. Mismatched pins can unbalance a bullet, and drive one nuts trying to figure out what's wrong. Hollowpoint depth does of course alter the performance of the hollowpoint. Deeper hollowpoints tend to expand more, all other things being equal. Hollowpoint diameter is also important, and is the actual shape of the cavity. What velocities are you planning for the old girl? I'm assuming you're considering using it for deer sized game, but in a nutshell, a hollowpoint cavity .355 deep, of normal diameter seems perfectly in line for velocities around 2000 fps. There's really no advantage to pushing that bullet much faster.

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Duke M posted this 18 February 2014

I have that exact mould. Cast of ACWW and fired from a 26” barreled Model 94 30 w.c.f. with 26.5 grains of H-335 for 1,900 fps. Effect on an adult doe at 45 paces was similar to what I've seen from Nosler Partition bullets. Rapid early expansion with a considerable amount of damage, then the nose sheds and the base drives through to create an exit wound.

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