In my 40 years of casting I've never cast nor shot a wadcutter. Thought I'd try some in my .38 Special snubby for the heck of it. Any particular advantage in a wadcutter other than punching paper? Any pet loads? Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Go back and read my Fouling Shot article on the “full charge wadcutter."
Jim Cirillo of the Stake Out Unit of the NYPD was a great believer in the full charge wadcutter as being more effective than anything else you could get at the time (1970s) which would “work” in a 2” snubby.
He actually wanted the ammo factories to load their hollowbased wadcutter backwards, but the brass hats and lawyers wouldn't let them. Remington and Winchester did load full charge wadcutters for NYPD using a normal full charge as used for a non+P 158 SWC, and they bought sufficient quantities for practice and qualification and approved it for SOU duty and in 2"off-duty guns. That load was equivalent to about 4 grains of SR7625, 4.2 grs. of W231 or 3.5 grs. of Bullseye, and was assembled in normal nickle plated service cases for visual identification, and it did exactly what they wanted.
See:
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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Hi Pat, I shoot mostly wad cutters in the .38. I like AA no.2 but have had good results with 3.2 of Bullseye. I need to watch my seating depth with a couple of revolvers as the bullets that I cast are solid based. These bulge a lot of cases and make them hard to chamber in some guns, just the Taurus really. I like the way that they shoot. Good accuracy and mild recoil in a full sized handgun.
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Adding to what Ed said, they are accurate, effective, and economical. I prefer the H&G #50 but only slightly more than the Lyman 358495. Loading at or slightly above the loads that Ed lists I've had factory swaged hollow base wadcutters (Speer mfg) exit in two pieces when loaded as designed. The cast solid base wadcutters loaded to these velocities are perfect for the older 2” S&W Chiefs Specials and Colt Detective Specials. They don't strain the guns like +P stuff and seem to work better on small to medium game/varmints than the lightweight hollow points in 38 Special that don't seem to expand at all in the 2” revolvers. It's cheap to try with a Lyman wadcutter mold, used ones seem to be everywhere at low prices.
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I Have always wanted to try a WC mold, but the one time I attempted to use WC's in my Colt Officer's Model is the one time the gun leaded up. I ended up with lead all around the cone. I guess that fit may be extra important, especially with “regular” loads.
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Vassal..I feel your pain. Years ago shot on a police combat league..indoor range wadcutters & 2.8gr. 231..very mild loads. Bullets were bought by fellow who cast for the dept. Those things would lead a gun from stem to stern! I was just a kid..and he probably didnt want to here any suggestions..but even back then..I knew enough thru reading that the alloy must match pressure..as well as bullet dia. to throat fit. His response to our complaints was to cast e'm harder! I swore off wadcutters..never mind even considering buying a mould for the darn things! Fast forward 30 odd years..and proud owner of of a couple of neat Colts, both .38 Spec. a 1905 Bisley & a 1913 Colt officers target..both 7 1/2". I got on a wadcutter kick..bought just about every vintage Ideal/Lyman .38 W.C. mould I could find..both s.c. & dbl. Out of respect for revolvers age, I load light..2.8gr. to 3.0gr. Bullseye and soft alloy..usually range scrap + a bit of tin. my own soft lube mix..not a trace of leading.
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I bought a 358495 in 2008 from the late Joe Wiest.
Cast up a couple hundred the day the mold arrived bagged and labeled them, been sitting in the cabinet till today.
The only thing I have to shoot them in is a Win 94 in .357
So I loaded up 50 with a healthy dose of WC 820 , seated them in the top lube groove and gave them a nice taper crimp.
Lubed them with Glen Fryxell's lube, the best plain base bullet lube I have ever used.
And for grins I checked the hardness with the LBT, they tested right at 12 BHN, AC WW cast in 2008.
I ran four thru the action to see if they would feed from the magazine and they feed just fine.
Next decent day I will give them a try.
------J
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I just picked up a single cavity Lyman 358495 on ebay for a fair price. I bought an older one due that I have found (my own experience ) that the older single cavities drop larger bullets than the new ones.
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Hey Pig I can't see it.
For some reason this site isn't taking pictures.
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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A wad-cutter you might like to try in muzzleloading is the Modern Minie 50 cal. from Lee. It casts about 354 gr. in pure lead. It is a true wad-cutter with a hollow base for ML rifles in 50 cal. It has small grooves like tumble lube grooves and I will tumble lube this bullet. I want to try this too. Here it is if you are not familiar with this design:
$ 21.58
I bet these will slam down pigs with a ML rifle and I bet the bullet will be useful in my .500 S&W Mag rifle too!
Gary
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I cast about 100 of my .35 caliber wadcutters a little while ago from my “vintage” single cavity Lyman mold and true to form that old mold dropped bullets at .3615 to .362 consistently. Why In the world the newer Lyman molds don't drop with room to size baffles me. My vintage mold is in fine condition and dropped perfect bullets right out of the gate! It was well used but certainly well taken care of.
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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A wad-cutter you might like to try in muzzleloading is the Modern Minie 50 cal. from Lee. It casts about 354 gr. in pure lead. It is a true wad-cutter with a hollow base for ML rifles in 50 cal. It has small grooves like tumble lube grooves and I will tumble lube this bullet. I want to try this too. Here it is if you are not familiar with this design:
$ 21.58
I bet these will slam down pigs with a ML rifle and I bet the bullet will be useful in my .500 S&W Mag rifle too!
Gary I'm wondering what the load data would be for those wadcutters using BP.
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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For the 354 gr Modern Minie in my 32” barrel 50 Cal. Lyman Great Plains Rifle, I will use the Lyman Black Powder Handbook recommendation for a 370 grain slug in a 32” Barrel as a guide. The velocity for the 354 gr Minie should be about 3% higher. G-O 3FG was used in the Lyman loads:
45 gr -1060 fps 50 1116 55 1172 60 1227 65 1282 70 1337 75 1370 80 1402 85 1435 90 1567
70 grains 3FG BP had given me best accuracy for hunting with the Lee old style 50 Cal Minie That weighs 360 grains. I will try 70 grains first with the new style 354 gr Minie and see how it shoots.
I could average about 2.5 inches at 50 yards with the old style Minie and 70 grains. I would be happy if the new one does that. Minie bullets are not as accurate as patched round balls that group better from my rifle.
Gary
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For the 354 gr Modern Minie in my 32” barrel 50 Cal. Lyman Great Plains Rifle, I will use the Lyman Black Powder Handbook recommendation for a 370 grain slug in a 32” Barrel as a guide. The velocity for the 354 gr Minie should be about 3% higher. G-O 3FG was used in the Lyman loads:
45 gr -1060 fps 50 1116 55 1172 60 1227 65 1282 70 1337 75 1370 80 1402 85 1435 90 1567
70 grains 3FG BP had given me best accuracy for hunting with the Lee old style 50 Cal Minie That weighs 360 grains. I will try 70 grains first with the new style 354 gr Minie and see how it shoots.
I could average about 2.5 inches at 50 yards with the old style Minie and 70 grains. I would be happy if the new one does that. Minie bullets are not as accurate as patched round balls that group better from my rifle.
Gary Do you get any barrel leading with a dead soft slug?
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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I have not had any leading with either Minie or R.E.A.L bullets. I have pushed the 250 gr 50 Cal. R.E.A.L. the hardest with 90 gr. of Alliant BMZ substitute and had no leading. I lubed that bullet with 45:45:10 only, 2 coats.
The bore on both my Lyman barrels, the 1:60 and the 1:32 twist barrel are exceptionally high quality, polished bores and came that way from the factory in Italy. I didn't polish those bores either! They are both just slick shiny and easy to load with either patched ball , minie or sabot. That may be part of the reason that I get no leading. I have shot mostly pure 99.9% lead but once in a while I use soft pistol range scrap lead that tests 7-8 BHN. Never fired anything harder than that from an ML rifle.
I do swab between shots once with a snug, dry sweat cloth patch on a ribbed jag for substitute powder fowling but will use a different cleaning between shots with authentic BP. After each shot with BP, I swab twice with a soap/water patch then twice with dry patches. So, I actually get the bore pretty clean between shots when I am shooting BP. The soap/water solution I use is Dawn dish washing liquid and water 1:1 . I really use a lot of 2 x 2” sweat cloth patches when I am shooting ML but I have a nice old paper cutter and I get the sweat cloth from sweat pants from the Goodwill.
Gary
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Picture of my new wadcutter.
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Another
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Pigslayer:
Your Lyman 358495 bullet looks great, hope the size is good for your snubby.
Gary
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Pigslayer:
Your Lyman 358495 bullet looks great, hope the size is good for your snubby.
Gary I love the Older single cavity Lyman molds as they drop larger bullets. Mine drops at .3615 & I size to .360 as my throats are exactly that. I really wanted to go to the range yesterday & try them out. It was a nice sunny day down here. I have my LEE turret set up for RF & Wadcutter bullets. The four hole turret is really handy for that extra seating die. Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Finished Product
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Pat - This was the bullet that got me into casting in 1969 . I got a double cav and used bullets in the .38 Spl with 3 grains of Bullseye. Best gopher and small game load in the old M 10 S&W . Right on with the fixed sights.
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I have an old Ideal 358432 which is very similar to your 358495. It's fun to mess with the old molds. When I want production I use my Lee 6 cavity 358-148 WC. The Lee's are almost identical to the old Ideal 358432 and drop at .361 using 50/50 ww/pure lead alloy. It's amazing really how many different wadcutters are out there.
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I got that mold myself also and use it off and on and good to put animals down when it is time to do them up for the freezer.Take a hog down easy also.
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Pigslayer,
Depending on the load you settle on using, you may not need that much lube on the bullet. When I shot PPC I fed my revolves a diet of cast WC (Lee 358-150 cast from a pair of 2 cavity molds) and 2.8 grain of Bullseye. I only needed to lube one groove to get the accuracy I desired. More lube did not affect the accuracy but did increase the amount of smoke in the air. Not quite like shooting black powder, but close.
I also increased the hardness of the alloy and upped the dose of Bullseye and had a wonderful hunting/defense load.
If you end up liking the wadcutter bullet, Lee makes a good copy in a six cavity mold.
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Went to the range today with 100 rounds loaded with my wadcutters. They shot beautifully. 1 1/2", six shot groups @ 25' out of my snubby. All shot from a rest. I can't ask for any better than that. I'm sizing to .360 & lubing with Carnuba Red. I'm getting no noticeable smoke from the Carnuba Red.I have switched to that lube for all my bullets. Unique is my powder of choice and I have been using it since 1972.
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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