.22 cal cast bullets & gas checks

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45ACPete posted this 26 June 2014

I cast a batch of 224415's from a 50-50 lino-WW alloy and then attempted to size them with aluminum gas checks.  My usual procedure is to first seat the bullet into the gas check using my RCBS lubrisizer and Lyman gas check seater.  Try as I might, I could not get  the check to seat evenly--invariably they would be sort of “off kilter” with the aluminum higher on one side than the other, sometimes the aluminum filling the entire gas check shank of the bullet on one side and just barely wrapping over the bullet base on the other.  Tried gently tapping the nose of the bullet with a light hammer after first pressing the bullet base into the check--it would look pretty straight but then try to seat with the L-S and again, crooked!  I do have some copper gas checks on the way and I went ahead and also ordered a Lee push-thru die.  Any guidance is appreciated, also load data for .222 from a 14” twist barrel.  

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delmarskid1 posted this 26 June 2014

I make aluminum checks. I have found that some will be higher on one side. It seems as if the material stretches in the cutting. You may want to have a look at the checks that you have. For myself I like to seat checks by clamping a vice grip to the spindle that goes up to the bottom of the sizing die. I use a Lyman set up but I'm thinking the RCBS is similar.

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onondaga posted this 26 June 2014

Why are you fighting doing things differently than what works for me. Just copy me, I don't care. I like aluminum checks, they work fine for me and I use Lee lube and size kits and 45:45:10 tumble lube. 100 yards .223 Rem, Lyman 225646 #2 alloy sized/checked .225,  You probably have a nicer rifle, this group from my cheap H&R Handi:

http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/223Rem.jpg.html>

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gnoahhh posted this 26 June 2014

I have experienced Al gas checks bought from a couple of “cottage industrialists” that were higher on one side than the other. I view them as sloppy quality control that leads to unbalanced bullets, and by-and-large have quit using anything but Hornady's.

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onondaga posted this 26 June 2014

Our member fabricator of Aluminum Checks, Sages Outdoors uses Freechex tooling that cuts, centers Aluminum disks in the Freechex tool that then forms the checks centered by the tool. I have used thousands of Sages checks and have noticed zero off center checks from Sages:

http://www.sagesoutdoors.com/index.php

 It may help some members to get familiar with FreeCheck design to understand the self centering of that tool design and setup:

http://freechex.net/

Gary

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mike0841 posted this 27 June 2014

onondaga wrote:  It may help some members to get familiar with FreeCheck design to understand the self centering of that tool design and setup:

http://freechex.net/>http://freechex.net/

Gary - I cast 350 311299's (NOE mold) this morning using my PID and mold temp sensor.  Have 322 good.  Started to size an GC them and realized I was out of .30 cal GC's.  No problem just setup my trusty Harbor Freight 1/2 ton arbor press and FreechexIII and in about 20 minutes had 500.  I bought some 22 chex from Sage and am going to get in touch with Charlie for a 22 FreechexIII.  My son-in-law and I will probably use up many thousands with the old AR's.

Mike

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45ACPete posted this 27 June 2014

Gary--I'd be more than happy to copy your method, if I knew what it is. I'm just doing what I've always done with .30 cal checks, as well as .32's, 7mm's, and 6.5's. I was going to wait until my Lee push thru sizer arrives to try again, but am more than willing to try something else.

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onondaga posted this 27 June 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_user.php?id=5733>45ACPete

The .225” sizing fits the throat of my rifle so I can feel the bullet slide as I chamber a round. That kind of fit is what I aim for and what works for me. I Tumble lube 45:45:10 once before size/check and 2X after. My LOA is set to .005” engagement of the lands for my single shot NEF. My loads are modest with H4895, currently at 2,020 fps with the checked 225646 bullet. Bullet alloy is Certified Lyman #2 from RotoMetals. I size brass with Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die and use no crimp after seating bullets. My bore is polished with the method I posted on this site at:

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_topic.php?id=8364&forum_id=63>http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=8364&forumid=63

At the range or in the field I pull a dry clean BoreSnake through once every 5 rounds to keep bore condition relatively constant.

I use Lee Push Through bullet sizing dies with the Lube and Size Kits from Lee for every caliber I shoot cast and every one has been custom honed by me to get that throat bullet fit I mentioned. I have never lucked out with just a standard size from Lee.

Gary

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joeb33050 posted this 27 June 2014

onondaga wrote: http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_user.php?id=5733>45ACPete

The .225” sizing fits the throat of my rifle so I can feel the bullet slide as I chamber a round. That kind of fit is what I aim for and what works for me. I Tumble lube 45:45:10 once before size/check and 2X after. My LOA is set to .005” engagement of the lands for my single shot NEF. My loads are modest with H4895, currently at 2,020 fps with the checked 225646 bullet. Bullet alloy is Certified Lyman #2 from RotoMetals. I size brass with Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die and use no crimp after seating bullets. My bore is polished with the method I posted on this site at:

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_topic.php?id=8364&forum_id=63>http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=8364&forumid=63

At the range or in the field I pull a dry clean BoreSnake through once every 5 rounds to keep bore condition relatively constant.

I use Lee Push Through bullet sizing dies with the Lube and Size Kits from Lee for every caliber I shoot cast and every one has been custom honed by me to get that throat bullet fit I mentioned. I have never lucked out with just a standard size from Lee.

Gary

How about shooting 5 five shot groups at 100 yards and reporting the results? Will you?

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onondaga posted this 27 June 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_user.php?id=3>joeb33050

Maybe after Governor Cuomo legalizes edible Pot for treating Neuropathy. He is trying so hard for me and I am just suffering post stroke with serious left side Neuropathy that I have only been to the range once this year and shot all over the place. I am barely able to cast, and shooting is not working for me since last November stroke.

I cannot take the usual Rx drugs for Neuropathy as I carry TB and the usual meds lower immunity so much that I would go into TB. I have never bench rest shot stoned before but am actually looking forward to that.

Gary

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tturner53 posted this 27 June 2014

Well this story just took a wild turn! As far as the off kilter .22 gas checks give them a shot. You never know! Suckers may shoot great, I've had some real surprises playing this game. Stuff that 'should'nt' work has worked. Gary, sorry to hear about your medical problems. What the hell, if the pot helps let 'er rip.

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gpidaho posted this 28 June 2014

I Concur  GP

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45ACPete posted this 30 June 2014

Just today found a box of Hornady .22 gas checks that I'd forgotten about. One thing immediately apparent ts that they are a lot more shallow than the homemade checks--and as a result they seat much better--pretty square. I've lubed a few with LLA and am going to try them unsized--my Lyman .224 sizer die must be gummed up with hardened lube or something. I last used it about 15 years ago but now I just can't get any lube to flow through it.

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badgeredd posted this 30 June 2014

45ACPete wrote: Just today found a box of Hornady .22 gas checks that I'd forgotten about. One thing immediately apparent ts that they are a lot more shallow than the homemade checks--and as a result they seat much better--pretty square. I've lubed a few with LLA and am going to try them unsized--my Lyman .224 sizer die must be gummed up with hardened lube or something. I last used it about 15 years ago but now I just can't get any lube to flow through it. Put it in the oven on some foil or a old aluminium disposable pie tin with the temp set at 150 or the minimum and it'll soften the lube and not ruin the “o” ring. Mineral spirits will often work to soften/remove old lube too.

Edd

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45ACPete posted this 03 July 2014

Received the Lee push-thru sizer and right away started to get nicely seated gas checks--both aluminum and copper. Lubed them with LLA as Lee recommends and first tried a mild load of 4198 (8g)--groups were like 3"-4'' so today tried a bit hotter load--10g 4227 (still quite mild) and had some improvement but still nothing to brag about. I'll keep at it--am using the same alloy I've been using for gas checked bullets--50-50 lino-WW. Am seating the bullets to where I just feel the bullet engage the rifling on my Remington 722. The gun does have a heavy trigger pull--I found that when shooting jacketed bullets my first groups were king of lousy and only improved to the 1” range when I held the gun with a strong grip and pulled it very firmly back into my shoulder. Will keep at it--my next load will be in the 2000 fps range.

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max503 posted this 02 February 2015

Do the Lee push-thru dies work better than a lubrisizer? I load cast bullets in a 22 Hornet and I have had trouble with squished bullets in the lubrisizer.
Should I try a push thru die?

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OU812 posted this 02 February 2015

max503 wrote: Do the Lee push-thru dies work better than a lubrisizer? I load cast bullets in a 22 Hornet and I have had trouble with squished bullets in the lubrisizer. Should I try a push thru die?
If using flat nose bullets you can size and seat gas check nose first. Next lube base first.   The Lee sizers are good, but I debur and square face. I also put a little concave on face of punch. 

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John Alexander posted this 03 February 2015

In my opinion, the Lee dies are not a panacea have at least two advantages.

  1. I think they are inherently a bit better in aligning a lot of bullet types.  Nose punches fit pretty loosely in the four or five lubrisizers I have owned and the set screw pushes the punch to one side. There are solutions to the off center punch but most don't apply them.   See Pat Iffland's Fouling Shot article a few years ago on a comparison test.

  2. They avoid upsetting the nose of a bore riding bullet to a larger diameter causing variation in the nose diameter.  As OU812 mentioned, they can be used to avoid this problem even if you want to fill lube grooves in conventional way by sizing first in the Lee and then lubing in the lubrisizer using a die of the same or slightly larger.

A disadvantage in some situations is flattening of the nose of pointed bullets if sizing several thousandths.

John

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tturner53 posted this 03 February 2015

Probably like a lot of you I use both systems, the Lee and the traditional lube/sizer. Sometimes I have to use both to get what I want. When running pointy bullets thru the Lee push thru die it's necessary to use a wood or aluminum rod to push it thru one at a time. With flat nose types it can be used as Lee instructs, pushing the top one out with more bullets from below.  EDIT; An example of using both systems is using the push thru die to size and then a Lyman to lube. Sometimes the Lyman press can help seat a stubborn gas check better than a push thru which offers much less resistance to seating gas checks. I've used the Lyman gas check seater attachment doodad to seat checks, then tumble lubed and run thru Lee push thrus. It's all in the name of accuracy but I hold no records here yet. I won't stop until I achieve at least a reliable MOA with a .22 center fire.

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John Alexander posted this 04 February 2015

Turner53 has summed it up well.

The only comment I would make is that I size the NOE 22780 SP bullet (the sharpest point cast bullet I have ever seen) by pushing the bullets through with the next bullet without flattening the noses.  However I am only sizing from .2275” to .226".  BHN = 14 with LBT tester.  

It all depends on how much you are sizing, the hardness, and probably the smoothness of the die and the taper going in.  This is obviously a die that I have lapped from .225” (the largest Lee offers) so maybe it is smoother than it came from Lee or has a more gradual taper although I don't know if either of these things are true.   John

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OU812 posted this 04 February 2015

Here is a press mounted die body kit that allows use of all Lyman and some RCBS sizing dies.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?258427-Sign-up-list-for-push-through-sizer-set

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