Linotype confirmation.

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  • Last Post 27 January 2018
Canuck Bob posted this 30 September 2014

I bought a bunch of lead from a guy.  It included 3 large ingots of linotype.  Recent research has revealed that linotype could come from well used type metals and not be the original alloy.   My ingots are roughly triangular, about 2” across the flat and 1 1/2"high with a rounded corner on the triangle apex and about 25” long.  They have a peculiar end that looks like a needle eye that is a bit open on top and gently pointed on the other end.  The ingots are very evenly poured and seem to be very uniform in shape and consistency with no voids or wrinkles. Is there any way to confirm this stuff easily?

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RicinYakima posted this 30 September 2014

Yep, sounds exactly like linotype ingots (10 kg's) to me. However, they can be of any composition that was still useable in the printing machines. All I have ever used made good bullets, maybe a little heavy from lack of tin, but hard enough and easy casting. FWIW, Ric

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Canuck Bob posted this 30 September 2014

Thanks Ric, I just moved my stash into the garage to dry it up and keep from last winters mess.  A bunch of snow and sub zero temps makes lead handling very unattractive! I have a little more research, one of the three lino ingots has the “eye” broken off.  The fracture is definately a brittle metal fracture and very unifiorm.  The surface is like good grade 320 sandpaper that has been used.  Also, despite long garage storage before I got it and outside storage since the fractured area sparkles with many evenly dispersed tiny crystals I think.  They weighed out to 67# total for the three ingots on an old bathroom scale (suspect), roughly 10 kgs each as noted? It is hard and has a ring to it when tapped with a hammer.  

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Wineman posted this 30 September 2014

I have the same ones myself. At the California History Museum in Old Sacramento, there is a interactive display for the Sacramento Bee newspaper with the Linotype machine right there (cold). Feeding into it is one of the ingots held by a cable that slowly lowered it into the melting pot. I did not see the moulds that would recast the leftover LT and make a new ingot though.

Dave

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gpidaho posted this 30 September 2014

I believe linotype has a specific melting temp.   472 if I remember right.   anyway easy to look up.   GP

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RicinYakima posted this 30 September 2014

Sounds even more like linotype, now. Ric

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gpidaho posted this 30 September 2014

Good morning:  I rechecked this morning and quoting Jerry Gonicberg  from The art of bullet casting, Handloader & Rifle mag.  Wolfe Pub.   1966-1981  True lino melts at  463 degrees.  GP

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Canuck Bob posted this 30 September 2014

Thanks guys, I also found a test page on Antimony Man's site. He refers to a flat cooling curve. For my needs I'm assuming this is lino. It is top quality type alloy for sure.

I used the download Alloy Calculator as well last night. With this lino, new magnum shot, plumbing lead and some 95/5 solder I can make some decent alloys.

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gpidaho posted this 30 September 2014

My daughter is part owner in a metal fab. shop. I make the bullets we shoot and she orders up the 95/5 solder, that stuff would be expensive on my SSI budget but it sure makes pretty bullets when mixed in at about 2% love it.  GP

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Bud Hyett posted this 30 September 2014

30 years ago, a group from the Windhill Range bought eleven tons of linotype metal from an insurance company in Rock Island, Illinois when they phased out their linotype printing operation. In the cash deal, the foreman gave us the furnace they used to recast the linotype. He also went over the usage and how to work with the furnace. The operators monitored the lead and added a special alloy blend as the type quality and readability went down. The print shop would send a sample of the current used linotype to a foundry that prepared a blend high in tin and antimony to bring the used linotype back into specification.

The theory was to add a set amount of the blend to the current operation, but the operators were under pressure for deadlines and were not too careful about the quantities or timing.  A person ends up with an alloy that is very hard, but not exactly linotype to a set specification. Occasionally, the print shop would buy new linotype and begin again the whole procedure. The eyes were there to hang the billets on a hook on the wall, available for the operators to replenish the machine. I bought a half-ton of linotype in Spokane that is too hard, may even be mixed with monotype. I mix it 2 parts linotype to 3 parts old wheel-weights and still have a hard alloy. 

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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goodsteel posted this 28 December 2014

Linotype is supposed to be 12% antomony and 4% tin. I have XRF tested three different samples that came from different places, and it has been shockingly accurate to these numbers.

Remember that Linotype is a “eutectic” alloy. This means that the components are mixed in perfect harmony with eachother (no free floating antimony) and it has practically no slushy phase. This is also why Linotype bullets come out looking so shiny. If you were to add lead to them to drop the antimony content, you start to see free antimony leaching out to the surface of the bullets causing these nasty grey speckles and haze.

Eutectic alloys all provide these characteristics, but very few of them magically happen where a bullet caster could use them. Another common one that some bullet casters are familiar with is 63%Sn 37%Pb solder.

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gpidaho posted this 28 December 2014

Thanks for that Tim, those blemish marks on my bullets have been driving me nuts and I've been told various reasons for them. Now at least I know the probable cause. You, Larry and Bjorn have a most interesting project going on. Wishing you the best on this in the coming year. GP

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klw posted this 18 November 2015

Canuck Bob wrote: I bought a bunch of lead from a guy.  It included 3 large ingots of linotype.  Recent research has revealed that linotype could come from well used type metals and not be the original alloy.   My ingots are roughly triangular, about 2” across the flat and 1 1/2"high with a rounded corner on the triangle apex and about 25” long.  They have a peculiar end that looks like a needle eye that is a bit open on top and gently pointed on the other end.  The ingots are very evenly poured and seem to be very uniform in shape and consistency with no voids or wrinkles. Is there any way to confirm this stuff easily? There are two ways to do this.  Both are explained in a 2011 Gun Digest article.

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Norman posted this 11 April 2016

Being a printer in the 1950's most linotype users sent to Imperial Metals samples of their lino lead to be tested for content. “Plus” metal was added to the lino when the slugs were re-melted by the printer to maintain the proper individual metals proper content. Since “hot metal” is not the main stay of printing today, I do not know where you could get testing done. I would trust the printer maintained proper metal content and use the “pig” you have as linotype.

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max503 posted this 26 January 2018

They say there are no dumb questions, so.............

Is there a procedure for measuring melt temperature?  

I've got several buckets of type and you guys got me wondering about its condition.  

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 26 January 2018

Hmmmm.  I have a dozen bars of "linotype".  Like everyone else's it is who-knows the exact composition.  So one of these early spring days I will melt it ALL together in one 200 + Lb batch and cast a sample ingot and have it measured.  Normal people can find a scrap yard that can do it, I'll just take it into work.  THEN I'll figure the add-mix to bring it to text-book percentages. 

All of my other alloys I've had tested.  pure, 1 to 30, WW+ (8%tin 3% antimony) and 94-6 Pb-antimony.  It is well worth the trouble to mix 200-300-400 lb batches and have the tested.  There in NO question as to what it is.

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BigMan54 posted this 26 January 2018

About 15yrs+ ago I found 8 5lb bars of LINOTYPE at a garage sale. They were cast with the logo Federated Castomatic on the top of each one. I snapped one at the molded center joint and tossed it into a clean pot. It made the most perfect and shiny bullets I've ever cast. Friend of mine had it checked out. Perfect LINOTYPE formula ratio. I shot most of it up in my 1903A3, pushing the LOVERIN #311467 at about 2000fps with a good charge of SR-4759. Great accuracy, better then I could really take advantage of. I've always believed LINOTYPE is the BEST choice for any bullet requiring a gas check. GEEZ THOSE BULLETS WERE SHINY. 

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun. Did I mention how much I HATE auto-correct on this blasted tablet.

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onondaga posted this 26 January 2018

There are some characteristics and some assumptions about Linotype that are not all they are cracked up to be. The shiny bullet description is the same as any other bullet alloy. Shiny is an indicator of cold short undersized casting. A velvety finish with a slight frost indicates full fill-out from good thermodynamics of casting. The high hardness of Linotype as a bullet alloy subtracts an important characteristic. Fit becomes more critical with high hardness as the hard Linotype will not expand to fill bore dimension and attempts to do that always fail because the alloy is too hard and brittle to expand at shooting pressures.

Sure if your bullets are at an optimum fit they shoot well but the optimum fit is a narrower window  the harder the alloy is and Linotype bullets that are undersized will wobble down the bore and shoot all over the place just like any other alloy bullets that are undersized.

So cast Linotype hot enough to have a velvety finish and size them to an ink verified slide on chambering and you get the best results. Your window of fit is narrower.  Linotype takes conscientious checking for good predictable results. If you luck into good results with Linotype and have not checked those basics, your results are happenstance and not a magical alloy benefit.

Gary

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onondaga posted this 27 January 2018

The well proven method of Lyman to keep malleability in a lead bullet alloy is to keep Tin and Antimony in equal proportion regardless of the percentage of lead. Yes, you can make a bullet alloy as hard as Linotype and keep that ratio for malleability simply by using the lead hardening rule:

* Basic Rules for Hardening Lead- 

For every 1% additional tin, Brinell hardness increases 0.3.
For every 1% additional antimony, Brinell hardness increases 0.9.
For a simple equation,
Brinell = 8.60 + ( 0.29 * Tin ) + ( 0.92 * Antimony )

* formula from Rotometals bullet casting alloys page.

Gary

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BigMan54 posted this 27 January 2018

Gary,

I cast LINOTYPE  at 725 degress, My Gas Check bullets are all LINO, and drop out at 1 or 2 thousands over the molds designated diameter. I get very good fill out with a bit of frosting on the bases. As a matter of fact I'm able to use the old style slip on gas checks with my new reworked #429244GC. And I have to use a gas check seater to get them started.

Those two .44cal molds that I just got reworked are the only experience I've ever had with undersized molds. In fact listening to your guys advice is why I ordered my N.O.E. mold to drop two thousands over final sized diameter. In fact the only .44 mold I own that DOESN'T drop at .431dia or better is an old.#42798 and that still drops at .429dia.

And I see nothing wrong with appreciating  a short shiny nose with a frosted butt.

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun. Did I mention how much I HATE auto-correct on this blasted tablet.

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