I am a sucker for elixirs to remove bore fouling even though I usually can't tell much difference in how well they work except for lead removers which don't seem to work at all.
I see there is a new one being advertised - “NO LEAD” brushless lead remover from wipe-out. “Dissolves lead without brushing,maximum strength, easy to apply, safe to use."
Has anybody tried it?
Is there a solvent that will remove leading?
John
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I have used Wipe Out in a few bores. It seems to work. It DOES harm oil rubbed stocks though! It stained one of my varmint rifle stocks and I haven't been able to remove the stain. There are a couple ne “foaming” bore cleaners out now. One of them states"Do not get product in the action", I guess I will NEVER find out if that one works! There MAY be some other things that you can do to prevent leading in your bores. I get very little leading with my loads, and it isn't to hard to remove.
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There is no chemical available to remove lead flash coated to iron that would be safe and legal to sell for home use that would not also corroded the iron.
But with that said, if the lead is deposited over a coating of burned oil, grease or carbon fouling, you can use a high penatating liquid to lift the lead away from the iron. Kerosene and peppermint oil are two very good agents for this.
HTH, Ric
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I recently contacted Lone Wolf barrel company and asked them what to use to get lead out of a barrel. They recommended Birchwood Casey Lead Remover & Polishing Cloth. I bought some and used it on a Glock barrel that I leaded and was unable to get the lead out even after putting my brush in a cordless drill. The cloth worked great. It was easy and left the bore shinny and clean.
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Jimlakeside,
Your are right on with my experience. I have used BC's and Midway's abrasive cloths' for years. They appear to be about 1400 grit and wrapped around a smaller sized bore brush very effective. The grit appears to be harder than lead, and blueing, but softer than chrome moly steel.
Of course, reverse plating with the Outer's Foul-Out II is 100 % effective, if slow and not the easiest to use. Followed with about 25 stokes of polishing cloth, does the best that I know of for effective use.
Ric
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Heh heh, that reminds me, an idiot-savant friend of mine came up with something that embarassed the rest of our little group::
He poured out about 1/2 of a wide mouth bottle of Birchwood Casey Lead Remover, and stuffed about 20 abrasive cloth patches ( pre cut ) into the rest of the bottle.
Belt and Suspenders, there you go .... too dang simple for us telligent experienced people to come up with.
In My Experience, the abrasive cloths are terrific in taking out most of the lead ... might even take out all you need to take out ... but they still do no remove * ALL * the lead, down to bare metal.
...... also I gotta mention, if you are settling for fun easy to load 2 moa groups, you might consider playing with moly additive to your “lube/conditioner” ... just to hold down leading .. ( you will still usually find leading in that little ring right in front of your case neck, however, that might help accuracy, many just leave it alone ... ) ...
....... There is some evidence that moly additives are slightly detrimental to extreme accuracy, defined by me as a whole big bunch of groups under 1/2 moa ... (g) .... but if you are shooting in that category, you need to be * GIVING * advice here, not asking for other's experiences.
If you get into the Moly User's Defensive Group ( as I am )... (g) ... watch for a possible drawback in that it might give less initial ignition ( usually bad ) .. because it engraves the bullet more smootherly, .... you might need more, or faster powder, and a hotter primer, or slightly enlarging primer flash holes ... 0.080 or so final dia. should do it ...
With moly use, I moly up the barrel first with a moly patch, then shoot forever with moly on bullets, and at the end of the day, a patch or two with ( ATF, Kroil ER would work ... ) and a final patch with a corrosion-fighter wetter of your choice. Moly does not have strong anti-corrosion properties. I never clean down to shiny steel, once you decide to follow the Moly Trail. I guess I should mention that moly use is still being debated; results ( or reports of rumored results ) vary greatly.
just some trivia, ken campbell,iowa
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Smootherly???
Is that a word found in the moly users handbook? I dont recall it in websters unabridged...
The best way to get lead out is not to let it get there to begin with.. Of course that isnt always the case.
Properly fitting bullets with good lube and the correct pressure for the alloy being used prevents leading 99% of the time.
I would have to say from my experience that the lube or quality of lube being used has the most effect on preventing leading not as a function of lubrication, but what the lube leaves behind in the barrel that prevents the vaporized lead from adhering to the barrel.
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I don't have any particular problem and like several of you have found the lead out cloth the best solution. I just thought if there was a magic lead remover out there I would like to have some. Seems unlikely since lead is so inert.
I have tried the BC lead remover and could never could tell that it did anything kerosene didn't do just as well.
John
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Be carefull using those lead wipe away products on color case hardened metals. It CAN remove the color case harden also.
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I have found that Brobst JB paste and Kroil do a good job.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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Just bought a M44 in 762X54R of course. Metal is close to 100percent including bore. Got it at a local Gander Mountains and had them run a patch down it and it looks great. When really getting into the bore cleaning so I can shoot some cast boolits thru it the work really began. Tried almost all the solvents in possession including JB bore compound,G96 Lead Removing cloth, a new 8mm bronze brush. I have Ballistol soaking now and plan to leave it in over night. Any suggestions??? The military ammo used in this must have left some serious metal fouling and so far nothing is cutting it including some Kroil soaked for several hours. Are there any forums on the M44's. Mine was made in 1945, country of origin ???serial is 4dxxxxr (a cyrilic type r).Help,,,,afish4570:dude::dude:
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I just started using some stuff called Wipe-Out and it did a great job. Yesterday I did a Springfield and a Marlin and it cleaned them down to the bare metal with no brush work at all. I checked the before and after with a bore scope so I know there was jacket fouling and that it's gone. It comes as a foam or a liquid and supposedly isn't aggresive like Sweets.
Here's their site.
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Butch's Bore Shine does the trick for me. It's listed to get out copper fouling but seems to work with lead as well. It's got a heavy ammonia smell to it and will tear up the finish on the stock if not careful. I've got an “ugly spot” on a hand checkered, extra fancy English walnut stock that saids I'm more mindful of what I'm doing now. If that doesn't get it all I'll follow up with JB.
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Here is my 2-cents,
For copper fouling Wipe-Out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you have a bolt gun then get a bore guide that has an o-ring seal. Use the foam version. Spray it and forget it. Come back in and hour or or so and push a patch or 2 through it. Repeat the application. Do this 2 or 3 times and then leave it in overnight. With the bore guide you don't have to worry about the wood finish or it getting into the action. This product doesn't have a bad smell and will not harm the barrel if left overnight. That you can't say about Barns or Sweets. They scare me.
If you have a semi-auto use the Wipe-Out liquid. With the liquid I use the Accelerator and it seems to speed the process. Don't use a brass or bronze brush with this stuff, as it will eat the brush and you will get a false positive for fouling.
Since I started to use this stuff I now just open my bottle of Hoppes#9 on the bench so the area smells good while I am working.
I have recently bought some of the Lead-Out and the jury is still out. It did clean out the lead from a pistol barrel I had but I haven't had enough experience with it to say everyone should buy some. Initial use seems promising.
Pbbb
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M44 fouled barrel saga continues.....Since the quest started I have soaked the barrel with household ammonia,Kroil, autotransmission fluid and marvel mystery 50/50, Barnes, Shooters Choice, reg & Lead Removing Cloth. The SS brush (30 cal.) AND THE lead removig cloth seem to remove the most. The cloth comes out black each tiHme. I have tried the JB Compound on an brush with Kroil too. Barrel looks almost 100 per cent to the naked eye but still produces black on patches after SS brushing or the lead cloth stunt. What type of fouling am I fighting??? It seems to resist our normal solvents and processes.....:dude::dude:help still needed.afish4570
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The lead removing cloth is treated with chemicals that will always show black against reaction to the steel barrel. The JB does the same thing, some barrels worse than others, stainless hardly any black. You are seeing the chemical reaction, not necessarily fouling.
To see fouling to know exactly, you would need a bore scope. I do not have a bore scope, but am satisfied when my patches come out fairly clean after a scrubbing with a brush and Eds Red. I use JB often in my old factory barrels. You can feel to sandy feeling carbon with a patched jag, but then smooth after JB cleaned.
If your bore is rough in the old bore, a couple of fire lap jacketed bullets in 400 grit would clean it up some. I've leaded barrels up terribly before and Eds Red, a bore brush and JB have always taken it out with little effort........Dan
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M44 fouled barrel saga continues.....
With that one you are probably chasing a dream to see it spotless, bright and shiny. I bought an M-38 off the “clunk and junk” rack at a local shop years ago. The Bore looked not so smooth and was the same color on the inside as out. Also had a shot group to match. Was still one of the best summer projects I ever had. It's now got a turn down bolt, (a reshaped '03 from a junk bolt) and a nice looking stock. After what sounds like your effort to make it look good down the tube, I gave in. It no longer looks or feel ruff, but the color hasn't changed any. Threw all the work the grouping did come to be very respectable, so I'm just going to let it be at that. Chase the deer, not the dream. If it shoots good, it is good. :cool:
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i have used outers foul out III with great sucess. i had a barrel that i could say had turned into a smooth bore i scrubbed with every lead remover that i saw. the patch would be clean after a session of scrubbing but i could still see that the barrel was still in bad shape.then i bought the foul out III FOLLWED THE DIRECTIONS and when i first pulled the rod from the barrel it was covered in lead i should have let it dry and weighed it because it looked like a lead bullet had been ground up and poured in the barrel. not to hard to use compared to the results, it also removes copper. i dont work for outers. but it cleaned a very leaded barrel in about a hour .
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Alexanderj: You wanted a “MAGIC' lead remover, Well here we go.
Mercury has gotten a reputation as a deadly poison from the old gold miners who used it to extract and concentrate gold from the ore. The mercury was then boiled off (usually over a campfire) and the resultant vapor when breathed in was very toxic.
Years ago when I was doing lab work for my Dad he had a patient who had swallowed a bottle of mercury meal in a suicide attempt. The Mercury was so heavy that her internal sphincters could not retain the metal after it had worked its way through her GI tract and as he walked down the hall small spheres of the metal would slip through fall and strike the tiles and shatter into many pieces as she waddled down the hall.
B.E.Brickey
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it could be cupro-nickel you are trying to get out too.
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Good input, Ric. Lead removal was not an issue for me until recently because I followed Veral Smith's advice about just shooting the lead out with a non-leading load. Recently, however, it was taking too many bullets (to suit me) to get the last little bit of lead out of a barrel, so I asked a friend what he does. He uses Kroil followed by brake parts cleaner (and his instructions were longer than that). Shortly thereafter I saw a kit with Kroil and JB paste. That made me think that the penetrating oil was the key, so I used Liquid Wrench, which I had on hand, in three barrels (a 38-55 and two 44s) and then shot the lead out. Easy. Cheap. No muss, no fuss, no cuss. Then I saw that you recommended kerosene. Goodness sake, I used kerosene or the old Richfield solvent as a barrel solvent for years and years, and never had any trouble. Sometimes things are a lot simpler than we make them.
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today i had a bbl that was leaded. not severe but looking down the muzzle the bore has a gray look. i brushed and patched. used eds red, kroyl, gibbs. and no luck as i was about to go to jb's i noticed a maroon scotch bright pad on the bench. i cut a piece about 5/8x1in selected a jag for a smaller caliber and pushed it thru the bbl. then checked it for lead and it had removed some so back thru the bbl and lapped back and forth about six times and then patched with ed's red and dry patches. inspection showed the lead was gone. the pad i used is described as very fine. it can be had in ultra fine i believe. this may be too abrasive for regular use, i don't know. someone here may know. surely i am not the first to try this. others experiences or thought would be interesting. mike
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I found the easy way is just shoot jacket bullets and it take the lead out very easy and just about 3 of them do. Then you just have the copper to contend with . I got this out of the lyman cast book.
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Old Coot beat me to it but he is correct. :dude:However, I never had to let the mercury sit for 12 hours or more. For me 10 to 15 minutes would get it out with a couple of dry patches.
:coffeeThere used to be an over the counter remedy for head Lice called Blue ointment. The killing ingredient was mercury. You coul;d put it on a patch and scrub the lead out that wayas well although the flood the barrel with mercury was a lot faster.
Sadly, our benevelent (malevelant?) Big Brother government has decided that mercury is bad news no matter how it is used. I emeber a while bak when a mercury thermometer got dropped and broken at one og the local schools. The EPA shut the school down for a week to remove the contamination. :jawdrop: What were they thinking?
Paul B.
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Mike,
The maroon pads use aluminun oxide as the cutting agent. The next finer pad is grey. Continued use will result in wear, but I couldn't say how much is too much. Some of the pads you can buy at the grocery store are just nylon, but some have an inbedded cleaning compound. The plain nylon work OK. For tough leading, I also shoot a jacketed round.
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The LEWIS Lead remover has got to be the best mechanical remover. I have seen a HOPPES version of the brass screening cloth too, so I suppose they have a similar assembly. The notion is the lead fouls the brass patch and viola the lead out. The first patch through gets about 90 percent.
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I have to agree that the best way to keep lead out is to not let your bore get leaded. Some 30 odd years ago it was suggested to me (by Bill Wilson I think) to use some copper scouring pad material wrapped around a worn borebrush and push through my 45acp bore (dry no solvents or oil) to remove lead. I have used this method since on any barrel I have lead in that I need to remove. I once had a 45acp barrel leaded so bad that you could hardly see the grooves and about 12 or so passes using this method and no lead! Works great on shotgun chokes too! The only trick is make sure the bore is dry. If you have already introduced solvents just use some denatured alcohol to clean all the solvent and oil out. After cleaning the lead out, one patch with a copper solvent will remove any trace of copper left by the copper pad and brush.
I MUST CAUTION...make sure that the copper scouring pads are copper, some of the chinese stuff is copper washed steel of some sort. I take a magnet with me in the store to check before I buy.
I might add that the above precedure I use for leading that I can't remove with Kroil and a brush.
JD
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I have to agree that the best way to keep lead out is to not let your bore get leaded. Some 30 odd years ago it was suggested to me (by Bill Wilson I think) to use some copper scouring pad material wrapped around a worn borebrush and push through my 45acp bore (dry no solvents or oil) to remove lead. I have used this method since on any barrel I have lead in that I need to remove. I once had a 45acp barrel leaded so bad that you could hardly see the grooves and about 12 or so passes using this method and no lead! Works great on shotgun chokes too! The only trick is make sure the bore is dry. If you have already introduced solvents just use some denatured alcohol to clean all the solvent and oil out. After cleaning the lead out, one patch with a copper solvent will remove any trace of copper left by the copper pad and brush.
I MUST CAUTION...make sure that the copper scouring pads are copper, some of the chinese stuff is copper washed steel of some sort. I take a magnet with me in the store to check before I buy.
I might add that the above precedure I use for leading that I can't remove with Kroil and a brush.
JD
+1 Copper -- REAL copper wrapped around a bore brush takes it right out no problem. If you've got doubts, Brownells has the stuff.
Art
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I use a Lewis Lead Remover and have a adapted the Lewis for my 30 cal rifles. In the rifles it is a long hard pull. So instead of that methods, I shoot a jacketed clearing round thru the rifle and cleans the bulk of the lead out and then it is eblow grease with a couple of chemicals mention that are not for home use.
Jerry
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Magic Lead Remover;
Remove all oil and grease from the bore.
Plug chamber .
Fill bore with Mercury Metal. Let stand over night.
Drain and recover Mercury fro reuse.
Yes Hg is toxic , but then so is lead. Wash your hands.
B.E.Brickey
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I avoid mercuy, I am not even sure where to buy mercury these days. I use elbow grease, copper mesh and jacketed bullets to really clean the lead out of my bores.
Jerry
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:PThe best lead removing solution I've found is to mix equal parts of hydrogen peroxide with white vinegar. Bronze brush the dry bore thoroughly to help with the oxidation of the leading. Plug one end of your barrel and position it vertically. Now pour the 50/50 mix down the barrel and let stand for 10 to 30 minutes. The mix will bubble and foam as it works its magic. You should see a dark gray liquid forming under the foam. This is the disolved lead. Depending on the severity of the leading you may need to repeat the soaking more than once. Pour the disolved lead solution out, brush the bore, and run a patch. Do this as many times as necessary to achive the desired results. When satisfied the bore is clean enough finish off with your normal cleaning and rust proofing methods.
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Rick,
Is pepermint oil the same as the pepermint flavoring used in cooking? I'd like to try some but I'm not quite sure of what to purchase and / look for. I've never seen pepermint oil.
Thanks, Bob 11B50
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Rick,
Is pepermint oil the same as the pepermint flavoring used in cooking? I'd like to try some but I'm not quite sure of what to purchase and / look for. I've never seen pepermint oil.
Thanks, Bob 11B50
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Peppermint flavoring in about 1/10% oil and the rest alcohol and water. I have not seen any since I was an apprentice tool and die maker in Cincinnatti, 40 plus years ago. My last ran out years ago, and I have been looking since. They have mint farms where I live, but it is all spearmint. Ric
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i use a copper jacketed bullet at around 2200 feet per second.
if symptoms persist try a second one...
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I too use the Copper Chore Girl on a jag with a patch (dry) with Chore Girl swatch about an inch square. A worn out bronze brush with Chore Girl works too. Try this source too for $15.50 shipped to door you will get enough material to end your search for pure copper Chore Girls and risk getting the cheapies, China steel with copper plating. ww.domyownpestcontrol.com/stuffit-copper-mesh-p-1463.html?utmcampaign=Product Feeds&utmsource=Google Products&utm_medium=link Cut and paste this and it will get you to the Domyownpestcontrol website....product is called Stuffit-Copper Mesh......afish4570:dude::dude:
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Brownells sells bronze wool which does a pretty good job wrapped around a bore brush, at least to get the small stuff. Lewis lead remover gets my vote for heavy stuff. But those little brass screens with the punched holes are pricey. I thought I might try some aluminum window screen cut to the sized with scissors. Anybody tried that? I am also going to try Kroil, and maybe kerosene in the bore as some have mentioned to help prevent leading. I hate leading and I dont think it helps my accuracy any. Thanks you.
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The thought of sending a JACKETED bullet down a really fouled bore scares me a LOT. Even a partial bore obstruction raises pressures. How much is debatable, but we KNOW it does this. If there is MINOR leading, this may work. MAJOR leading is another story! There MAY be some readers of these posts that are new to reloading and cast bullets in particular. I THINK it's better to teach them NOT to get leading and how to spot it BEFORE it becomes a serious problem.
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” Lewis lead remover gets my vote for heavy stuff. But those little brass screens with the punched holes are pricey."
Brass screens are available in the plumbing section of the hardware store. They still use them in faucet aerators. A buddy had a small jar half full of mercury. I wish I'd talked him out of it. They say that gets it ALL out.
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” Lewis lead remover gets my vote for heavy stuff. But those little brass screens with the punched holes are pricey."
Brass screens are available in the plumbing section of the hardware store. They still use them in faucet aerators. A buddy had a small jar half full of mercury. I wish I'd talked him out of it. They say that gets it ALL out.See my above posting....www.domyownpest control for the copper mesh or copper chore girl (check with magnet alot is copper plated steel or stainless steel). afish4570:cool::cool:
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Thanks afish4570 that looks like some pretty promising stuff ..stuffit..
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the Wilson handbook (1911 type auto's) suggests using copper pot scrubber's found in grocery stores. make sure it is 100% copper. wrapped around a bore brush. after I tried it I went back to the store and bought the rest on the shelf. it cleaned out a badly leaded 45 auto ( another story) lickety split. faster than anything else posted here. I guess BILL WILSON knows what removes lead.
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I use the birch wood Casey cloth cut into patches on a jag for cleaning my 30 cal barrels that are exposed to Linotype at ~1900 fps. About 2-3 clean passes seems to clean very well. Then I use some solvent on a clean patch to remove any residue from the BC patch process. I've not used a soft alloy where leading has occurred.
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i always use, LPS or WD 40 with scotch bright, pushed through with a plastic or wood dowl of a slightly smaller size. removes all lead and powder residue buildup, clean your cylinders also, i had powder residue buildup in my blackhawk 44mag causing overpressure,, sticking cases. this method solved my problem .
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I must be really dumb!
Havent had a rifle lead so far (from 1985). Mostly BP and slow smokeless but i have a 6.5x55 that does over 2k fps and is a spotless as a senile mans mind.
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Welcome to the CBA forum, ionian7. Chicken thief, how about sharing your favorite 6.5x55 recipe? This little gem is known to give cast bullet shooters fits.
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RicinYakima
We use wintergreen oil in some of the power plants as a penetrating oil. Most stopped using it only because they scent halon systems with wintergreen.
You can find it on amazon. Essential oils they're called. I took a quick look and the best price I saw was ~14.00 for 4 oz. of either. Ralph
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Loren: I use the Birchwood Casey cloths to clean out leaded bores. Luckily that doesn't happen too often anymore. They work very well cleaning up old military bores also. D's Kid: I've read a lot of your posts and believe you would be quite careful with the mercury, but having played with it as a kid it still gives we the Willies thinking about having something that potentially hazardous about the house. GP
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The most “magic lead remover “ YOU will ever see is mercury metal which will not hurt you unless you vaporize it. Decrease bore, plug, fill with mercury, let sit a couple of hours or over night, pour back into container, wet patch. Works like a charm. Mercury got it's bad name from the old miners who used it to dissolve or purify their gold ore, and got the gold back by evaporating the Hg away. Mercury vapor or salts are extremely toxic.
Bass screen is available from Ace Hardware or Homco Harware. For a few bucks you can get a heck of a lot of it and cut your own patches. Brodie
B.E.Brickey
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I actually found the bronze wool at Ace hardware store too. They didn't have bulk brass screen.
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About the sharp-shoot-r product Lead remover--It will harm the bore. I bought some from Midway and received a plastic bottle which was bulged on the bottom. I tried to open it carefully outside and lucky for me that I was outside--it had pressurized and squirted product when opened.
Also the instructions refer to the product as a red gel--what I got was a clear liquid.
I called the number on the label and spoke with(I forget his name) the proprietor who said the product was indeed clear and that the discrepancy came about because they had many of the old labels and were using them up(Huh?)...The stuff I got smelled like something we used in the papaermill I worked in called Bulldozer, which is a super strong caustic with a surfactant added which we used after a maintenance shutdown, for cleanup or the system, a “caustic boilout".
I refer to the lead-out in the past tense because I disposed of it after the container began to leak from the bottom. I strongly recommend not purchasing any of this stuff. The Wipeout and patch out however are good products that I have used for years with great results, for powder and copper fouling.
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