38-55 got me scratching my head

  • 5.1K Views
  • Last Post 10 May 2021
Qc Pistolero posted this 02 August 2019

I post this under the ''accuracy''category only because there isn't any ''innacuracy''section.The gun is a Pedersoli High Wall in 38-55.The gun is brand new.At first,I only had bullets of 265gr from my RCBS mould.I beagled it and they come out at .378''.I'd shoot them topping 19 and 20 gr of 4198.At 50,1 out of 3 would keyhole and at 100,out of 5,3 would be out of the target.

I got me an Accurate mould that casts 330gr .380 bullets(38-270cb with one band added).Either with 17gr 4759(yes,I got a few pounds stashed away)or with 20gr,21 and 22gr 4198 loads,I get the same result.The pattern is, from a cold barrel,the first 2 or 3 rds print good rounded holes and as the barrel warms up,it starts keyholing so that after 8 or 10 rds,the bullets miss the target,and this even at 50 yds.I slugged the bore,.378.So my bullets at .380 are ok.I checked the twist;as advertised,1:12.I don't size and apply 2 coats of LLA.

The puzzling thing is that it does that only when the barrel warms up.I removed the forearm and it bears evenly on the barrel.

Coming home,I dabbed the inner part of the barrel with Ben'd Red;I intend to bring it back onto the bare metal and start over with regular 50/50 Alox/beeswax lube.

Anybody has any idea what is causing this?

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
Fitzpatrick posted this 03 August 2019

are you using star-line 2.125 brass,? I have a browning traditional hunter 28 in. barrel 1 in 15 twist ,I paper patch but have shot just cast and lubed everything from 215 gr. to 370 gr. buy mine does not like the short win.brass

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
Qc Pistolero posted this 03 August 2019

Yep;it acts exactly the same with Starline and WW brass.

I spent the evening trying to watch the ball game but not actually seing it.If the bullet hits sideways,it is not stabilised.But since it is when the barrel is cold and starts sending them sideways as it warms up,it has got to be heat related.The more I think of it,the more I think the wood forearm is the culprit.

I think my next step will be to try shooting it with the forearm removed.

I'm not desperate but see this as a major challenge.

Attached Files

Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 03 August 2019

challenge.

hey, i think you have come to the right place .  over the years, i have come out of the closet safely here as another shooter who is easily bored with rifles that shoot well. 

i meekly offer that " only inaccurate rifles are interesting "  ......   

****************

i may not be mainstream. but thanks CBA for the company ...

**************

to start the simplification with your problem:  funny bedding doesn't cause wobbly bullets . scattered impacts, yes.

rule one is to match your throat, not * just * the main barrel.  38-55 specs have a reputation for funny throating, so i would make a casting or slug upset of your chamber, throat, and a half-inch of the rifling.  the story/rumor/myth/reality is that the throat is smaller than the groove diameter of the barrel.

the next possibility is the wrong twist for the bullet.  an easy check, but it is good to start with easy answers.

there is quite a following of the 38-55 here, so let us solve your problem and uphold the honor of that great old cartridge.  i sadly don't own one but have worked on and shot several in high-wall, and m94 win.; love the big holes they make in pop cans .

ken 

 

Attached Files

joeb33050 posted this 03 August 2019

"Dick Trenk was the driver in talking with Pedersoli during the development of the 38-55 Hi Wall rifles. Chamber was specified as 2.130 to accommodate the long brass. Groove diameter at .379 nominal for a .380 bullet with a .372 bore for a .373 bore riding nose. 1 in 12 twist to handle bullets up to 400 grains."

  

If your twist is around 12" it takes a major problem to get bullets to keyhole-bad barrel, big glurp in barrel, something big. It ain't bullet fit or velocity or brass length or lube or forend interference. Or moon phase.

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
  • M3 Mitch
R. Dupraz posted this 03 August 2019

Given what the OP wrote, there is obviously something major going on here. I would be interested in how an oiled tight patch feels when pushed through the bore from breach to muzzle. Smooth and uniform all the way or tight and loose as it is  pushed. And how  this barrel shoots with jacketed no matter what the dimensions are "supposed" to be. 

 

R. 

Attached Files

45 2.1 posted this 03 August 2019

The only time I've heard of this happening is when the barrel was mounted backwards. A barrel is usually tapered some from the breech to the muzzle, the muzzle being smaller. Tap an oversize round ball into the beech so it gets out of the throat area, then back out the same way, then do the muzzle with another oversize round ball, then drive it out of the muzzle and measure both..... The breech should be larger.

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
  • Ross Smith
Qc Pistolero posted this 03 August 2019

I've checked the twist;1:12 as advertised.I've run a tight patch through the barrel and it feels uniform all the way.I've slugged it and the slug mikes at .3785.My bullets are cast and inspected from the same batch of lead I make my 45-70 from; my Dixon Pedersoli Sharps sends them with boring regularity between 1 1/2'' to 2'' @100.

The first 3 rounds @50 group good from the cold barrel.The 4th or 5th shows an elongated hole at 2 to 3'' from the center of the group either left or right of the group and if I keep shooting,the 6th or 7th will show the bullet hit completely sideways anywhere on the target and at the 9th and following rounds,they miss the target altogether.

I let the barrel cool down and the whole shebang starts again.The Starline brass will group better its first 3 or 4 rounds but will start having the same behaviour after the 4th or 5th.I shoot quite fast(1rd/minute)and it was hot and humid both times I tried it(85 to 90*F and humid).

I have a few rounds with JB I think I'll try.I hope I won't have to send it back as I had been waiting 6 months to get it.Guess I'll make a casting of the throat but then,how come the problems occurs only when the barrel is heating?

 

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
beemer posted this 04 August 2019

Have you slugged your bore and throat. If the bullet doesn't fit nothing else will help so get that out of the way first. As Ken Campbell stated the 38-55 can be funny. 

A good friend bought another brand of Hi-Wall in 38-55. We started with a Lee mould at about .378. Finally after lapping at about .383 it started to shoot, We went just a tad bigger and it started to give  chambering problems.. A Lee push through at .383 and everything is fine.

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
Bud Hyett posted this 04 August 2019

 Remington Rolling Block with a take-off barrel of known accuracy gave similar fits. One day it shot sub-minute ten-shot groups and the next day it shot improved cylinder. I was trying powders, primers, alloy hardness, anything.

One day, one of the ASSRA shooters at Tacoma Rifle and Revolver saw my exasperation and stopped to talk. He once owned a .38-55 with similar characteristics. He solved the problem with breech-seating and 20:1 Pb/SN  alloy. (He then traded for a .32-40 for less recoil.)

I used his counsel and tried breech-seating with a plugged case. The rifle shot far better and was more predictable. While the cartridge drawing shows a short neck on the cartridge, the chamber drawing does not show this and breech-seating may be your only option.

Work kept me from experimenting too much, too much overtime and travel. I shot CBA Production Class since that was easier to load for at that time.

In the end, the rifle went to Tom Gray to become a heavy sporter .45-70 that shoots very well. The .38-55 barrel went to a friend in Boise wo rebarreled a 1893 Marlin. This rifle shot extremely well and the elk steaks were delicious.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
  • Ross Smith
Tom Acheson posted this 04 August 2019

This may or may not be helpful.

I had a Marlin 336 lever action that had a Green Mountain octagon  1:12 twist barrel. Using bullets between 265 and 300-grains it preferred 18.0 AA 5744 and 18.0 of IMR 4227. 20.0 of Re-7 and 21.0 of 4198 did OK but not as good. It was only shot at 100-yards, no chrono data though.

Tom

 

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
Larry Gibson posted this 05 August 2019

"The first 3 rounds @50 group good from the cold barrel.The 4th or 5th shows an elongated hole at 2 to 3'' from the center of the group either left or right of the group and if I keep shooting,the 6th or 7th will show the bullet hit completely sideways anywhere on the target and at the 9th and following rounds,they miss the target altogether."

To me, that is a sure indication of fouling buildup causing the problem, especially with a PB'd bullet.  Most often caused by a lube not working or too soft an alloy....could also be both.  A switch to the Alox/beeswax lube might be the trick, especially in the hot humid weather. If not I'd stick with the alox/beeswax lube and add more tin to your alloy.  You don't mention the alloy? 

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Ross Smith
  • Bud Hyett
Qc Pistolero posted this 05 August 2019

Bud:I thought of breech seating;just what did you plug the case full of powder with?

Larry:I use 25:1 alloy.I'll try 50/50 Alox/beeswax next but if fouling would be the culprit,why does the problem creep up only when the barrel warms up?

This gun is my biggest challenge for the over 40 years I've been casting...but darn it,I'm not about to lower my arms.

Attached Files

Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 05 August 2019

hey, the reward is much bigger for climbing mt. everest than mt. pisgah .... 

...reminds me :: back when i was a techie ... after working on a screwed up system for 4 days with no improvement  .... we had to write on our mental blackboard 100 times ::   " there is something wrong with it " .......

doesn't apply to fixing wimmin critters, of course ...  not enough blackboard ...

ken

edit:  trivia:  i just realized i live 5 miles from both mt. pisgah and podunk ...  am i lucky or what ?? ...

Attached Files

Larry Gibson posted this 05 August 2019

Larry:I use 25:1 alloy.I'll try 50/50 Alox/beeswax next but if fouling would be the culprit,why does the problem creep up only when the barrel warms up?

I'm not exactly sure what is happening there but I've seen it numerous times in the past.  Keeping in mind the more you shoot to "warm" up the barrel the more fouling is deposited and the lube/fouling consistency probably changes.  Also given the lubed bullet does not swage down to groove diameter but less because it rides over a film of lube and fouling and is swaged down to that.  The softer the alloy is the more swaging is done.  Also a PB bullet does not have the GC to scrape the bore.  As the barrel heats up and the fouling builds or changes the bullets may not be holding the rifling, especially with the faster 12" twist.  I believe a 18" twist was "standard" for the 38/55 prior to the advent of the 375 Winchester wherein Winchester just used the 12" twist 375 barrels they were making for the 375 H&H and other "modern" cartridges. 

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

Attached Files

BigMan54 posted this 05 August 2019

I have a Friend that bought a Hi-Wall in 38-55 30" bbl about 18yrs ago. I don't remember the Manufacturer. It might have been Pedersoli.

I was stuck with the job of making it shoot Cowboy Long-Range. 

I started by dropping one of my own loads into the chamber. It didn't fit.                                                                                         I load a Lyman #377449GC, cast of #2 sized .380dia for a .379bore and a non-existent throat. There is just enough throat to allow crimping in the bullets crimping groove. As long as the case is trimmed to 2.075. Winchester cases only, starline cases are too thick. 

My .38-55 Rifle is a Winchester Commemorative: Chief Crazy Horse, made in 1982.   

The Hi-Wall's throat is shorter, I have to crimp over the bullets first driving band to allow the round to fully seat in the chamber.  Fortunately his bore is .3785dia, I used 50/50 lube and seated gas check with a Lyman gas check seater and then sized and lubed.

The load uses IMR3031, a middle weight charge according to what the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4. In my Lever Gun if I raise or lower the Powder Charge by 2.0grs and accuracy goes to blazes. No key holing but groups open from 2 1/4" at 100yrds to 4"+ from the bench. I put a no name tang peep sight on it in 1990, uses the factory front. Lyman wasn't making Tang Sight yet. 

Back to the Hi-Wall. Groups weren't bad at 3"+ from the bench. A Tang Sight was added and Bear Creek Bullets of .379 were purchased. My friend preferred the Moly-Coated bullets.

Accuracy was decent enough at 3+" at 100yrds for my friend. 

He traded off the 99 starline cases and I gave him 60 WW cases.  He doesn't shoot Cowboy anymore so I guess the Rifle just sits in his safe. I would have liked to continue to work with it. Try some IMR4198 or SR4759, fool around with another bullet. Even bought a Lyman #380681 to try a softer alloy. I choose the #2 originally because it cast big enough.

I always wonder if I remembered enough to do everything I was supposed to. The only Lever Guns I loaded for were .30-30 in a Win 94, .45-70 in a Marlin 1895 with microgroove Rifling and later a Marlin 1895CB.  And that 94 in.38-55.

It was 30yrs too long ago that I loaded any other Levergun Calibers. Forgot most of My Dad "Tricks". And he wasn't around to ask. 

Just what I did, hope you might find something usefull in my ramblings.

 

  

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun. Did I mention how much I HATE auto-correct on this blasted tablet.

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
Qc Pistolero posted this 07 August 2019

I,like Larry,thought that maybe my lube that does so well in my 45-70 might not be doing its job in that particular barrel.His thinking pretty well holds up when I consider that the measurements of both the bbl and the projectiles are ok.On my next batch,I will lube some with 50/50 Alox/beeswax.I put some Ben's red in the bore and let sit for 72 hours after some scrubbing.I ran over a dozen patches through it and will start over from a clean bbl.

I was loading 20 rds with 3031 and was sorting out my Starline brass from my WW.I then had a thought and bothered to measure the Starline.I was shocked to find that they both were the same lenght.While like Larry said that doesn't explain the keyholing,it should help shrink my groups...when I(should say we)will have found what's the bugaboo!

Well,at least I've found a good explanation to my wife why I've got to place another order to my favorite supplier.

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
Qc Pistolero posted this 10 August 2019

Did some more tests today.While I don't want to let myself get carried away,I think that we are on the right path.Besides,while talking about my problems at the range,one good friend came up and told me he has a bore camera and offered it so as to see if the innards of my barrel and chamber are in good health;offer accepted.I'll check it as soon as I get a few minutes,but as I first said,I think I'm on the right path.Just let me run some more tests so as not to bs you guys and I'll report back.

These coming days look a lot brighter than the last few I've been through!

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
Qc Pistolero posted this 16 August 2019

Just back from the range.Problem solved...or maybe I should write problems solved!

After I checked the bore with a camera,I was reassured to find everything was normal.Of course I had previously cleaned it to the bare metal(3 days soaking in Ben's Red + a few strokes with a bronze brush and many  patches).

I then shot a few topping 26.5gr IMR 3031(Thanks BigMan54)and they started printing straight through;no more keyholing.I guess I wasn't pushing them fast enough.But after 3 or 4 rounds,the groups started opening up and at about the 6th or 7th round,completely missing the paper.Back to the reloading bench!

Casted a few more and decided to lube some with 50/50 beeswax/Alox.Since my sizing die is .375 and I need .380,I lubed them by hand.I hate that game but went ahead in the interest of science!I again cleaned the barrel and shot 5 groups of 5 at 75yds(hurt one of my legs so I decided 75 was far enough for me to make sure everybody saw I was in pain getting there!).Bullets still printed head on and I had 5 nice round groups that got me whooping all along the firing lane(guys there knew I had a problem and weren't mad at me;I think they were just glad to see I was an happy camper again!).

I then fired 5 other rounds with the bullets lubed in LLA.After 3 rounds,the bullets were still printing head on but the groups were opening up in a dramatic way.After 5 rounds,they were again missing the target.

Larry's comment about the lube was right on.LLA ,I think because of the quick twist of the rifling(1:12)is stripping.Lots of smoke and gray streaks in the rifling near the muzzle.I'll now have to enlarge my .375 sizing die to .380 or maybe save me the grief and order one for my Star lubrisizer.But whatever I decide,thanks to all of you guys who pitched in some paths of solution.This site is like a well of experience!Thanks guys!

Attached Files

Bud Hyett posted this 19 August 2019

Breech seating was done with a plugged case. I drilled the base out of a case and started the bullet by setting the bullet in this case and tapping it into the rifling. Then I used the plugged case to finalize the seating. 

I used a cardboard wad from tablet backs at that time to hold the powder in place. Today, i use a thin, .250 inch, layer of floral foam to hold the powder. Push the case up through the foam in one step. The foam is consumed in the firing. 

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
Qc Pistolero posted this 22 August 2019

Thanks Bud.I might just try that.

Attached Files

Qc Pistolero posted this 09 November 2019

Eureka!22.0 gr IMR 4198+ Dacron filler;5 shot in 1 1/16'' @50 yds.And this done on a windy day with lots of snow coming down.Next move;test at 100 and fine tune my loads.

I am now starting to love my High Wall.

Thanks to all of you for the help!Much appreciated.

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
beltfed posted this 13 November 2019

Again, please Qc P,

What bullet is that, lube, diameter, gas check? etc. that u used in the 1 1/16" group at 50yds?

Tx

beltfed/arnie

Attached Files

Tom Acheson posted this 13 November 2019

From the peanut gallery....

I have a Remington Rolling Block with a new Green Mountain octagon 1:12 twist barrel. The scope is a 24X Unertl. It still has that horrific issue trigger pull. My RCBS trigger pull gage tops out at 72-oz. (4.5 pounds) and it didn't budge. I'm guessing its at least 10-pounds. The guy doing the finishing is also going to reduce the pull to about a pound. It won't be like my 2-oz. Jewell triggers but it will be a world of improvement over the issue trigger.

Before sending the rifle off to be color cased and blued, I shot (3) 10-round groups on 14 Oct., 100-yards, each with a different bullet but all with 22.0 of 4198. The best group was 2.211" with (5) into 1.181". The bullet is a NEI 379375, appears to be a Postell looking nose, 309- grains. It is sized at 0.378+" but this is too small. I now have a Lyman 0.380" sizing die for the next go-around in the early spring. Will also look at 5744, Re-7 and 4227 in those tests.

Cases are the longer variant of Starline. Primer is CCI BR-2 with SPG lube. No idea on muzzle velocity.

The pot was just filled with 15:1 for the next casting session.

FWIW

Tom

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
Dukem posted this 13 November 2019

Might be interesting to try wiping the bore between shots with ER ten a dry patch and see how long you can hold a group. Personally I think your bullets are too small. I have only messed with an 1889 Hi-Wall and a Hepburn in 38-55 and they are both GONE! Miserable mismatch of fat bore and tight chamber neck. .382" bullet breech seated worked, and soft lead with black powder worked in fixed ammo. Miserable beasts!

Duke

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
R. Dupraz posted this 13 November 2019

FWIW department

38-55  with IMR 4227

CPA, heavy Douglas 15" twist 

Hoch 310 grain PB

 

 

R

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
Qc Pistolero posted this 13 November 2019

Beltfed,my bullet is cast from a mold from Accurate;it is a 5 cavities 38-270cb but with 1 band added.The bullet has a bevel base no gc.This brings the weight right at 330gr with 25:1.I do not size them but will have a .375 sizer opened up to .380 as my bullets come out at around that.I dipped them in my lube heated in a crockpot.Lube home made from lithium grease,parawax and aprox 5% floor wax made of carnauba.One group was at 1 1/16 and the other at 1 1/8.

Darn cold and windy up here,We had almost 1 foot of snow yesterday but on Friday,if the wind calms down,I might try it at 100.

Attached Files

Tom Acheson posted this 13 November 2019

FWIW department

Richard,

That very nice group looks like the one I lucked-out with a Marlin 336 in 38-55 using 18.0-grains of 4227, also at 100-yards but a 250-grain Accurate bullet. That powder is definitely on my list to keep trying with my new project gun. I also plan to play with black powder in the rifle.

Tom

Attached Files

R. Dupraz posted this 13 November 2019

One more, 

Had some rounds left over after an NRA  BPC midrange match

8-18-07

Same rifle only with Black

45 grains ( that lot) Goex 3F

one .030 paper gasket wad

330 Grain Hoch NP PB

50/50 bee's wax/olive oil lube

starline  38-55 long brass

200 yards prone over X sticks

Nine shots in 2 1/4 "

I have a Marlin CB 38-55 that is also a shooterl. No reason that that Rolling Block shouldn't be as well.

 

R. 

 

3-18-07

Attached Files

GWarden posted this 15 November 2019

My go to powder in my CPA, Krieger bbl, 14" twist, Hoch BP tapered bullet 25:1 mix, Emmerts lube is Alliant 300MP. A fellow on the ASSRA site has used this powder in testing, 40 pounds of it, and has the results to show that it is superior in the 32/40 and 38/55. I concur with him as I have also used this powder extensively.

Bob

Attached Files

Qc Pistolero posted this 22 June 2020

Almost 1 year (and many tests)later,I'm more than happy to report that I might be hot on the Holy Grail accuracy trail.From a gun that would throw its bullets sideways at 50 and sometimes miss entirely the target,,I finally am smiling when I look at my targets;1 1/2 to 2'' 5 shot groups at will at 100.Here is the story.

Bullet mould from Accurate 4 cavities made out of aluminium(38-328M ordered to give birth at .380'' with 25;1 which it does beautifully).RCBS sizer die opened up to .380 by specialized machinist(not me,I'm all thumbs!).They come out lubed with my own mix at 330gr.(1/2 lithium grease,1/2 beeswax I bought from a local honey producer;quite soft good for winter.I add parawax to harden a bit for summer use).

Long story short,Starline brass,Federal Magnum rifle primers,23.3gr IMR 4198 with Dacron filler.I weight and segregate bullets in 1gr increments(+-0.5gr)and seat to the crimp groove(next step:try different seating depths).

Shooting from the bench,the 30'' bbl High Wall comes back with enough authority to shift my baseball cap a bit but I solved that problem by removing it.The thing is trying to tell me that we can do better 

At one point I was almost ready to consider selling it.Luckily,even if that's a mistake I've done a few times before,that is not one I'm about to redo with that one.Getting older making you wiser might a good thing after all!

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
  • TRKakaCatWhisperer
delmarskid posted this 22 June 2020

I'm glad you got it dialed in. I'm another fond user of the lithium beeswax .

Attached Files

Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 23 June 2020

...SO ...

What .. i wonder ... was the secret magic key to success ... ?

so next time we can all just skip directly to the smiley part ...

ken

who really enjoyed this adventure ...

Attached Files

Qc Pistolero posted this 23 June 2020

Ken,I like to think that it is not only one well kept secret but a lot of many details which when cumulated gave the good result.Having a sizer opened up to just kiss the sides of the bullets plus a soft lubricant were two important things.

Another one I found  helped a lot is that I was casting at 710*F.I had rejects in order of 12 to 15%.Such a high % of rejects from visual inspection led me to believe that there might be more with defects I could not see.I started weighting them and found that I had many at the ends of the curve(+- 5gr was the norm).I increased my casting temp to 750*F and presto,my reject % went down to 4 to 5%..

Case prep is another area where I now spend more time(anneal,trim,deburr,put enough bell before seating and not crimp but just remove the belling).

Using magnum primers made a real difference along with the filler;no more trail of unburned powder in my barrel.Next up is to experiment with the seating depth but I really think that I am at my(not the gun's)limit for shooting with metallic sights.But just for the sheer heck of it,I'll try anyway!

Attached Files

Tom Acheson posted this 15 August 2020

Has anyone out there had any experience with a NOE mold #376-329 RN PB? It is a slightly tapered bullet, which migh be helpful for breech seating.

Thx

Tom

Attached Files

4060may posted this 16 August 2020

Tom

looks like Lyman 378624, I bought one of the first production, cast .381-.382, and the nose was big, sent it back and received a new one, cast .378, shoot s ok in my 38-50 with BP out to the Pigs, 300M, never shot it with smokeless, did not have to size it, pan lubed, GM barrel 1-12, and Shilen 1-12

so far with my 38-50 CPA, and smokeless, Breech seated, Alliant 300MP, works best, at 100/200yds, I have a 38-55 on a RB, haven't shot it much, 1-14 Green Mountain Barrel, so far only BS in the RB, have shot fixed smokeless with the CPA, 38-50, had better luck breech seating, the bullet I am using is one my friend made the mold for me, it is similar to Dan Theodore's design with 2 grease grooves and a round nose, casts .378 on the drivindg bands and the bore ride section is .368, weighs 350gr in my alloy

Attached Files

Tom Acheson posted this 16 August 2020

4060,

Good info, thanks!

I too have found 300MP to be a good 38-55 powder and along the way, discovered that magnum primers help that powder shoot well.

Not yet breech seating but am considering it. Is there any difference between the "push type" and the hinged seaters? The chamber was not cut to accomodate BS but I suspect a tapered bullet would help in that regard.

All I have in 38-55 is a Roller, 1:12 GM octagon 30" barrel. Right now the bullet is a Saeco 571, which is tapered similar ro the NOE that I asked about. It has been suggested that I should be using a heavier bullet. The 571 weighs 309 in 15:1 alloy.

A friend gave me few of the NOE bullets to try. If they shoot well, I will buy the NOE.

Tom

 

 

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
Bud Hyett posted this 16 August 2020

For my .25-50 WCF, I have both setups and cannot see any noticeable difference on the target. I am still experimenting, this is a question that is bugging me also. I have two Stevens 44 1/2 rifles, two barrels, Shilen and Krieger, cut by the same CPA reamer.  (The .25-20 give less recoil than the .32-20 CPA and less recoil is needed until my jaw bone graft is fully healed.)   

Setup #1 is the Weber seater that is guided by a cartridge and has the leverage to make the bullet slide in. This works well, I can feel the resistance as the bullet slides in and know a bullet offering slightly more resistance will shoot in the nine ring at 12:00 o'clock. Therefore, I hold on the 6:00 o'clock to counter the feeling.  A bullet that slides in far too easily goes into the backstop.

Setup #2 is the Meyer push seater with a case. I short seat this bullet and use the .25-20 WCF plugged case provided by CPA for the final seating. This is because I cannot get the bullet to lay in the chamber and slide on in to my satisfaction. The block sliding up and pushing the plugged case does not give the same tactile feel.

The .38-55 Rolling Block I shot many years ago mentioned above evolved to a similar process. I drilled the base of a case to use for the preliminary seating of the bullet. There was a push rod through the head to get the bullet into the leade. Then a plugged case to finalize the seating. This was also in part because the design of the Rolling Block does not give great camming power.

I'd recommend a case with the head drilled and push rod to get the case started, then a plugged case to finalize seating.

Good luck and keep us informed of your progress.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

Attached Files

barnabus posted this 03 December 2020

what lube did you end up using to stop the leading and get consistant accuracy? if i read correctly you used 50/50 AND added ALOX after sizing and filling lube grooves?

PS: I sent you a private message

Attached Files

Qc Pistolero posted this 04 December 2020

Barnabus:I know you sent me a pm;I answered it but you obviously didn't get the answer.I'm sorry and I'll try to see what went wrong.Same thing happened with another forum member a couple of days before.Really have to look into it!

The lube I use for the 38-55 is the one I make for rifles which is quite soft.I also use it in my .308.Lithium or graphite grease mixed with parafin(canning wax).The parafin is used only to harden the mixture as it doesn't have any lubing properties.I add some floor wax which contains carnauba wax(aprox5% per volume).

I make my mix in a crock pot:if it comes out too hard,I remelt and add some grease.If too hard,I remelt and add some parafin.The consistency is such that my RCBS sizer doesn't need warmth to feed it into the sizing die.

My liquid Alox is  used for the bullets I shoot unsized(30-30,38spl,45-70,45Colt).For the ones I size(357,41 and 44mag,9mm)I use my 50/50 Beeswax/Alox.

But no,I do not size and lube then add liquid Alox.It might work but I feel that it is overdoing it.I've tried it once and didn't see anything that suggested an improvement.

Hope it helps!

Attached Files

barnabus posted this 07 December 2020

yes i never recieved the PM.Id like to talk to about the Pedersoli 38-55 specifically as im having trouble.If you would email me at [email protected] i can give you my cell number if you have time to talk in depth with me about your solution and results. Thanks!

Attached Files

Qc Pistolero posted this 09 December 2020

Since I live in Canada and Ma Bell hits me pretty hard when I call in US,I'm looking to find another way to communicate with you.Maybe Facetime.

Or you can pm me and I'll try to answer to the best of my experience.Really like it if I could be of some help.Let me know which you prefer.

Attached Files

Qc Pistolero posted this 10 May 2021

just an update here:RCBS mouls 250gr FN cast with acww,beagled(bullets drop at .379),sized in my .380 sizer so as to lube only and I admit I cheat a little using GC,soft lube(graphite grease with a little parrafin to harden it a bit;at 60*F,I don't need the heater on the sizer,it flows easily).Bullet comes out at 275gr lubed checked.

32.0gr 4895 in Starline brass with Federal Mag primer steadily go into 1 1/2 to 2'' at 100 and 4'' at 200.I'm really beginning to dig that rifle!

 

Attached Files

Close