Springfield 03A3 Cast Bullets

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  • Last Post 10 September 2009
CB posted this 25 July 2009

Casters

I have 7 or so 30 cal Lyman molds. Have had several 30 cal rifles but now down to a Win 70 in 30-06. I don't mess with cast in this gun.

I would like though to have a 03A3 military issue. Don't know but I always felt the 03A3 would be a good base for my Cast, had one long ago but the split stock caused me to sell it what I paid for it. I have 311359(2) 311466 311467 311410 311291 311284.

What have you guys found out about a 03A3 with Cast.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

 

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leadsquirter posted this 25 July 2009

I have an as-issued Remington 03/A3 with a two groove barrel dated 9-43 and it loves cast bullets. I have two Lyman .30 cal moulds 311299 and 311672 which I cast 50/50 lino/lead and size .310. I've used this rifle in 200 yd. CMP matches with the 311672 and 23.0 grs. AA-5744. Last May it took a first place in the Springfield category with 17 entries and everyone else shooting jacketed bullets. After the match the guys in the pits ask me what I was shooting because it sounded so different punching through the target at 1,700 fps.

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CB posted this 25 July 2009

Lead

Thanks that is what I wanted to hear. Especailly beatng those jacketed guys.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

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billwnr posted this 26 July 2009

I'd go to the military cast bullet records and match results section to see the results.

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Bob S posted this 07 September 2009

For 100 yards, it's hard to beat the 311291 with 15 grains of 2400.  It will hold together well enough to clean the MR-52 target at 200 yards if there isn;t a whole gale blowing, and it will teach you to follow through.

For 200 and 300 yards in the National Match Course, my go to load was the 311284 with 40-42 grains of WW II surplus 4831.  In the 1973 season, I used this load at 200 and 300; I had to resort to the Sierra 168 grain International and 46.5 grains of 4895 for the 600 yard stages.  I got my Master classification that year with those loads, with my 03A3.

Group is the first ten shots out of the tube after I reassembled the gun after putting the scope blocks on, so the first two are “out of the group".  Then it settled down.  200 yards prone.

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tturner53 posted this 07 September 2009

Nice lookin target Bob, thanks for sharing that. I have about 10 lbs. of that old 4831 myself, a guy gave it to me way back. It's great powder and has produced sub-moa groups in a variety of guns and dropped a couple head of big game too. I've even used it in the 45-70, per Paul Mathew's instructions. I noticed there's sure a lot of Riflemen from Virginia, they teach it in school or something?

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billwnr posted this 08 September 2009

I shoot 2400 in my 1903 and one thing I've noticed is the first 6 shots from a clean barrel go high.

My method is to shoot the first 6 to get the barrel “warmed up” or “fouled” and then once the shots hit where my zero is to then shoot the next 10 for record.

Somewhere around the 25th shot the hits start dropping down one bullet hole at a time.

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Bob S posted this 08 September 2009

Bill,

Is that only with 2400 powder, or cast bullets in general with that rifle?

Resp'y,

Bob S.

USN Distinguished Marksman No. O-067

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giorgio de galleani posted this 09 September 2009

 The CBA 's newsletter is called The Fouling Shot for this reason,

Based on pure superstition or actual observations many cast bullets shooters consider the first shots from a cold - clean barrel unreliable.

My own  two groove 03A3 uses to shoot the first round from a clean barrel astray,with any powder.

Most of my cast bullets rifles do the same,so,I seldom clean unleaded rifle bores.

I do clean the chambers, sometimes,for  obvious safety reasons.

My autopistols (911 and Browning HP35 )will have feeding failures when the chamber fouls up too much.I am compelled to clean them rather often.

I consider a bore shot with correct loads of lubed bullets as being “conditioned” and protected by rust, and do not clean my faithful 45/70 marlin during the whole boar season,if w are not drenched by rain or snow:

I do inspect the bores,with the aid of a cheap otoscope.

The  illuminated gadget the doctors use to look inside your ears.

 

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giorgio de galleani posted this 09 September 2009

And let me add that making decent scores with an old .30 cal 03 springfield , and cast bullets  , beating a lot of people shooting Sierra Bullets in their CarlGustafs 6.5 or Swiss K31 7.5 has been a great satifaction to me.Quite smilar to get your Distinguished  Marksman Badge.

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billwnr posted this 09 September 2009

Bob S wrote: Bill,

Is that only with 2400 powder, or cast bullets in general with that rifle?

Resp'y,

Bob S.

USN Distinguished Marksman No. O-067 It maybe related to using 2400.  The shooters I know using 5744 don't have this problem.

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Bob S posted this 09 September 2009

Bill,

That's interesting.  Im going to have to go investigate that.  I've never noticed it, but maybe I'm just not payin' attention.  ;)

 

Giogio:

Fouling shots are not just limited to smallbore and cast bullets.  We used to schedule cleaning and practicing with our Long Range magnums (30-338, and later 300 Win Mag) so that the barrel would have about 20 shots through it at the start of an important match.  Testing indicated that they grouped best with between 20 and 60 rounds through them.

Resp'y,

Bob S.

USN Distinguished Marksman No. O-067

 

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cityboy posted this 09 September 2009

I ALWAYS fire 4 or 5 fouling shots the check the zero and condition the bore before shooting for record.

Jim

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Bigstrap3 posted this 09 September 2009

billwnr wrote: Bob S wrote: Bill,

Is that only with 2400 powder, or cast bullets in general with that rifle?

Resp'y,

Bob S.

USN Distinguished Marksman No. O-067 It maybe related to using 2400.  The shooters I know using 5744 don't have this problem. I havre a sporterized 03 that seems to throw the first couple shots high on a clean barrel, and with IMR 4895 gives a flier now and then that messes up my group. I have just started to use Hogdon 4895 with 28 grains and a 311299 boolit Looks promising. A friend gave me some 5744 which I will try out soon. Please post here what your results are as I am very new to this cast Boolit stuff, and learning alot.:lovecast: thanks much.... George

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LWesthoff posted this 10 September 2009

28.0 gr. H4895 behind a (lino) 311299 bullet sized .310 is my 200 yd. match load in my issue 2 groove '03-A3. Works real well (when I do my part). I haven't chronographed it, but H4895 seems to me to be just a bit hotter than IMR4895. I do always shoot 2 or 3 foulers, first, out of a clean barrel, and although they would be well within minute of Columbia Blacktail, they are out of the group.

Wes

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billwnr posted this 10 September 2009

LWesthoff wrote: 28.0 gr. H4895 behind a (lino) 311299 bullet sized .310 is my 200 yd. match load in my issue 2 groove '03-A3. Works real well (when I do my part). I haven't chronographed it, but H4895 seems to me to be just a bit hotter than IMR4895. I do always shoot 2 or 3 foulers, first, out of a clean barrel, and although they would be well within minute of Columbia Blacktail, they are out of the group.

Wes I shoot in matches with Wes and he does quite good.  His loads also perform well.

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KenK posted this 10 September 2009

I've shot my Springfield a lot over the past year and thought I had figured out the fouling shot(s) issue.  Shooting mostly ten shot groups, the first few shots were generally in the group when I started with a clean and lightly oiled barrel.

I have a couple of bullets that seemed to shoot one about as well as the other (based on my shoddy record keeping) and I decided to try to figure out which would give me the best chance at a good aggregate for four five shot groups.

I loaded 50 rounds of the first bullet at with the same powder charge but two different seating depths.  The second bullet I loaded 50 rounds all seated to the same depth but one set of 25 with a light crimp.  I started with a clean and oiled barrel for each set of 25 shots.

My test proved fairly conclusively which bullet shot the best aggregate.  I have to repeat to find whether crimp or no crimp is best with that bullet.

Now to the point; in all four sets, the first five shot group was the largest by a good bit.  No surprise there.  The surprise to me, and what I hadn't really noticed shooting ten shot groups, is that in that first “fouling” group there was only one flier in three of the targets, one target had two wild shots.  The wild shot seemed to have about an equal chance of coming in shots 1-4.

And, on the fouling target the shots that did go in the group, were much more tightly clustered than in succeding targets.  In other words, in 3 out of the 4 targets, four shots grouped under and inch and the wild shot opened the group up to 2- 2 1/2 inches.

The later groups were evenly dispersed and averaged about 1.7 inches.

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LWesthoff posted this 10 September 2009

Several years ago I read somewhere that the ballistics guys at the powder/bullet manufacturers had come to the conclusion that 5 shot groups weren't too reliable as load accuracy indicators, and had settled on 7 shot groups as the minimum. I also have come to the conclusion that Ed Harris' famous quote, “THERE ARE NO LUCKY 10 SHOT GROUPS,” has an awful lot of truth mixed up in it. When I'm evaluating a load, I shoot ten on a target. I feel that group sizes are more consistent, target to target, and tell me more in less time than do five shot groups.

(But I'll have to admit I still like to look at those occasional real tight little 5 shot clusters.)

Wes

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billwnr posted this 10 September 2009

When I did the last testing on the load I currently shoot in the military matches I followed my usual protocol of shooting a sighter target until the hits dropped down to the center of the target and then fired a 10 shot group. That group measured 1.2” at 100 yards. It was centered on the target and was a 100-8X. Shame it wasn't shot in a match.

The first batch of shots on the sighter target were high (and left) 9's which is how 2400 loads usually perform for me.

The past 4 years I've shot the Lyman 31141, the RCBS 180-SP and the NEI 72A and they all shot excellent with 16.5 grains of 2400. The 31141 seemed to shoot the tightest groups but it leaves something to be desired at 200 yards when it's windy.

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