Is S&B 762x39 Useable?

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kokojoe posted this 19 September 2009

HI,

I've read a bunch of varying opinions and suggestions for this brass - but I can't seem to bring it all together - so I thought I'd ask.

I have a terrible time loading primers in the S&B 762x39 brass (and 9MM - but that's another topic).  Rarely will one load properly and then only with considerable exertion.  I'm using Federal Match Large Rifle - which work fine in every other type of brass.

Part of my problem is likely just cheapness.  I buy fired brass and end up with a substantial amount (maybe 20-30%) in S&B.  The real answer?  Probably just to get rid of it.

I got the primer pocket uniformer and bevel the end of the pocket.  Even then, 1 out of 5 might seat ok.  The others go in, but not strait and seldom completely below the head case.  I called Dillon about their swager - and they said it really is only to ease the entry - it probably would not solve the problem.

What are your ideas?  Just get rid of it?  Or has anyone successfully overcome these problems?

Thanks

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jhrosier posted this 20 September 2009

RCBS makes a primer pocket swager that will work in a standard press. It will swage your pocket to the correct size if you have a stout press, like the Rockchucker. I have used one of these for many years to swage military primer pockets to size with very good results.

Jack

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JetMech posted this 21 September 2009

kokojoe,

What tool are you using to seat primers?

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chboats posted this 21 September 2009

Kokojoe

I had the same problem with some 30-06 mil brass. I don't know if it was the same problem because mine went in strait but it didn't matter what tool I used in order to seat the primer deep enough you had to flatten the primer.  I used the RCBS primer pocket swagger and beveled the pocket with a deburring tool. It helped some but did not fix the problem.  I got a Lyman primer pocket uniformer hand tool.  That fixed the problem.  The pockets were tapered in at the bottom and not deep enough.  To speed things up I took the cutter out of the handle and chucked in a electric drill.  Be careful to keep the cutter strait and use a piece of rubber in pair of pliers to hold the brass.  Now I can prime with my Dillon, the rockchucker, or a hand primer with no problem.

 

Carl

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kokojoe posted this 21 September 2009

Dollar Bill wrote: kokojoe,

What tool are you using to seat primers? Dillon RL 550 B

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JetMech posted this 21 September 2009

I don't know how well the Dillon works on military brass. I seat all mine with a Lee or RCBS hand tool. The RCBS swager might work for you, but with most metals having some defree of spring-back, the Lyman pocket uniformer might be a better choice. It cuts away excess material and has always worked well for me. I've used it for years with good success. HTH.

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kokojoe posted this 22 September 2009

I'm wondering if those responding are just talking about successful use of military brass or, specifically, the S&B?  This seems to be my problem.  I understand about the removal of the crimp - but the S&B puzzles me because it seems to be just a plain, tight pocket - and perhaps slightly shallow?

If I sent the uniformer to the same depth as a Winchester case, it does cut out some of the bottom of the S&B pocket - but it does not appear to have any effect on the diameter.

What is the specification for the seating of the primer below the case head?

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JetMech posted this 22 September 2009

kokojoe wrote:  the S&B puzzles me because it seems to be just a plain, tight pocket - and perhaps slightly shallow?

If I sent the uniformer to the same depth as a Winchester case, it does cut out some of the bottom of the S&B pocket - but it does not appear to have any effect on the diameter.

What is the specification for the seating of the primer below the case head? I have some S&B brass in 30-06. The pockets are tighter than the other brass I have (Win, Rem, military). I understand that some folks have some with very tight pockets, to the point where they threw them away. Some just use a crimp remover (just to bevel the openning and make starting the primer easier) with some success. Mine aren't so tight that I had to resort to a press to seat them, just the RCBS hand tool. I don't know what to tell you about that. It's true that a primer pocket “uniformer” just ensures that the pockets are all cut to the same depth. Primers should seat so they are a few thousanths below the head. SAAMI spec. for primer seating depth is 0.002"-0.005” below flush, but as long as they are flush and bottomed in the pocket, you shouldn't have any problem.

I know Federal makes the softest primer, but I don't know if maybe one manufacturer is slighty smaller than others. I wonder what was in them originally?

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kokojoe posted this 02 October 2009

UPDATE:

Well, no one said get rid of them - so I kept working.

I think these are military brass but  I just can't seem to see a visible crimp.  They mostly have an “09” on the headstamp.  Could that indicate 2009 military rounds?

In any case, a uniformer alone did not work.  But, I think I still needed it because the primer pocket depth seems too shallow.  The Winchester Large Rifle primers mic'ed at .125".  The un-uniformed and uncleaned pockets seemed to be just under that.  So, I first got them to .125” and had a tough time getting them all to seat with a slight recess.  So, I finally settled on uniforming to .127” and that seems good.

But, the uniformer alone did not do it.  So, I got the RCBS primer pocket swager.  Between the two items, this makes the brass useable.  The primers still seat harder than other brass (Winchester, FC, Fiocchi) - but seat ok and none ruined, deformed, or crushed. 

I have a Lee breachlock press for these misc. tasks.  The case remover cup that came with the RCBS would not work.  I had to take out about 1/4” of cast aluminum in two spots on the Lee - that was pretty easy.  Then the cup is too short - so I used a piece of 1” EMT conduit tubing and welded two 1/4” fender washers on the end and it works find for removing the cases.

It's alot of work - but now with this info it should go smoother.  I had 250 cases - if I wanted to buy new that would be over $75 - so it's worth some effort.  Now I'll be able to use these any time I can get them.

I'm sure this is in these forums somewhere - does someone recall the specs on how deep a primer is supposed to be seated below flush?

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BerdanIII posted this 06 October 2009

It looks like you've got the problem licked, but I have found that Remington primers will fit in S&B cases properly. They seem to be a litte loosey-goosey in other makes of brass, however. One of the guys I shoot with refuses to buy them on that basis.

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giorgio de galleani posted this 13 October 2009

Me too I am using S&B 303 br and 30-06  brass with Rem 91/2 primers.No problems,

Their 9x21 Italian brass is OK too.as their 45acp cases.

While the 38 special S&B brass has too tight pockets.

They are  well made of good brass,but I crushed one primer every fourth case.

Having lots of 38 free cases,I  bought a Hornady PRIMER POCKET REAMER,not the primer pocket uniformers,theese are only controlling the primer pocket depht,a labour loved by the bench rest crowd.

The REAMER reams the sides of the pocket and cuts a small bevel at the entrance of the pocket.

Just pefect primer seating.

The hornady is a hand tool,but I'll chuck it into an electric ,battery drill.a delicate low speed tool.

Lyman has a pocket reamer too,different from their uniformer,either hand driven or motor driven. 

To throw away brass is a wicked sin for me,collect it and sell it,copper  price is quite high nowadays.

 

 

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CB posted this 13 October 2009

Giorgio

Sinclair makes a Pocket Reamer with handle. I have one in small pocket have to make one in large.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

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CB posted this 13 October 2009

Bill

You could try a K&M priming tool. Takes all the Lee shellholders. Lots of power.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

 

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giorgio de galleani posted this 21 October 2009

I found ,deeply hidden in my den,,at ,last some 7.62X39 once fired brass.

I decapped it at once and tried to seat Remington 9 1/2 large rifle primers,

Impossible,the pocket is too small.

I'll get a large primer pocket reamer from Midsouth.

I have very good results from my Hornady small primer pocket reamer,many european 38 sp. cases are a tad too small and need some beveling.

The Sellier & Bellot brass is well made and of good metal,and as it comes to me  free of charge,a little work is worth while.

Kokojoe,you wrote you had negative   experiences with 9mm brass,would you please tell us about that?

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kokojoe posted this 22 October 2009

On the 7.62 x 39 S&B - I had to ream it to the proper depth with a reamer from Midway.  It was the one here:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=445053>http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=445053

I chucked it in my drill press and did all of them.  It took some doing to get to the proper depth - I'll bet it was a few thousandths at least.

That was still not enough, though.  The pockets had to be swaged, too.

So I got this tool:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=447022>http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=447022

Both had to be done.  I tried it with just swaging the pocket - but they would not seat because it was too shallow.  With just reaming, they would not seat.   With both, they seat fine but still a tad tighter than any other case.

Not bad, though, under $50 for the two tools and salvaged 250 cases so far.  Plus these two tools seem inevitable.

On the 9MM, I just could not get a primer to go in without crushing and deforming.  Maybe, at best, 1 out of 10 might work.  So, I did not attempt to use them at all.  I've got lots of 9MM brass so I've just been setting them aside with some other military 9MM brass.  I suspect it to be the same thing.  I've not had any similar problems with any other non-military 9mm brass.  Even the military brass that I miss and seat a primer actually works more often.  I've loaded a few thousand 9MM at this point and that has been my experience.

I've not tried swaging them or anything - but do suspect that it would make them usable. 

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giorgio de galleani posted this 22 October 2009

Quite a professor's lesson.

I feel that rifle cases are worth this work,

 38 sp. cases,that here  in Italy are not as plentyful and free as they were 20 years ago, are worth the rapid pass of the primer pocket reamer.

The  caliber mostly used by non reloaders here is the 9X21 IMI and those I collect a bucket at a time on my trips to the range,and I have not found any S&B at this moment.

S&B brass is commonly found and western calibers have correct primer pockets.

Our gun control law is idiot,actually all gun control  laws are idiot,laws should just control criminals,and keep in jail for very long periods.

Our laws allow the use of 9mm.luger caliber in revolvers only, and with lead alloy bullets.only.( never have seen one in my life)

All auto pistols have to be in 9x21,9x18,380ACP,,9 makarov,357Sig because 9 luger is a war cartridge.

Until a few years ago the 45 ACP was a war caliber,and we had to use the 1/10 of an inch shorter 45 HP cartridge.

With 45 auto and autorim allowed ,with lead bullets in revolvers.

The big companies protested,because making 45 hp barrels,with shorter chambers, was not economical,and the 45ACP became a ,legal peace caliber ,at last.

Making 9x21 barrels is simpler,just a reamer pass in a cheap 9 luger barrel.

I like best  44 and 45 caliber pistols,but the 9mm-357 caliber are much cheaper and allow much more training for the money,and I believe that training in pistol shooting is the most important factor.

So enjoy your 7.62x39 Bohemian brass,I use mine in a Sabatti bolt action light carbine,I am too lazy to retrieve all the cases from the dirt,if I can avoid that.

Also I dislike the Russian roll over  triggers,all of them, Moisin Nagant,Simonov,Kala & Dragunova,my trigger finger has been trained on the western two stage military triggers.,S&W double action and on Browning's design autopistols.

Quite a conservative old intestinal gas emission I am.

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fRANK46 posted this 11 August 2010

While this thread is about S&B 7.62x39 brass, I would like to say that their 45acp brass has given some problems to other shooters where I live. Mostly regarding the tight primer pockets. I have a big box of once fired 45acp S&B brass. I use a primer pocket reamer and most times the constriction is right at the front of the primer pocket. And have found that some of their 303 british brass has shallow primer pockets which I use a primer pocket uniformer to clean up. Frank

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Uncle Russ posted this 05 November 2011

I read with quite some interest these ideas as from time to time I go through this also. My answer is the Dillon primer pocket swager. I broke mine and they fixed it for free just like advertised. If that is not the cure all I resort to a L. E. Wilson primer pocket cutter. It trims, cuts depth and radius the outside edge by hand or use their power attachment in one pass. Wilson makes their money making parts for Boeing. Their hobby is reloading tools of bench rest quality for a very reasonable price. Grandpa Wilson was quite a rifle shooter in his day. I saw him in his shop in Cashmier WA shortly before his passing. Really neat people in a really neat shop. I can't say enough about them or their product.:thumbsup

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