Buying a new mold

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  • Last Post 02 December 2009
amb1935 posted this 26 September 2009

I'm looking into buying another mold for my 9mm, and I was wondering about the difference between a round nose bullet and a truncated cone?  Does one feed better in an autoloader?  What are the pros and cons to the two bullet designs?  Thanks for the help. -Aaron

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tturner53 posted this 26 September 2009

I have a Tanfoglio TA90 in 9mm. It is very reliable with any roundnose bullets, but has choked on truncated cones a time or two. I think it depends on what you want the ammo for. A failure to feed in a defensive gun would be bad. But the only way to see what your gun likes is to try some of each.

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Vassal posted this 27 September 2009

I am not sure what your needs are but I have been casting a lyman devestator for 9mm and I love it! with soft lead and about 900-950fps I am getting MAXIMUM expansion - .675!!! It shoots pretty well also but I have not done much accuracy testing yet.  I have always shot roundnosed projectiles so I can't help there.

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amb1935 posted this 27 September 2009

I have also shot all roundnoses, which have fed reliably. I was just wondering what the purpose of the TC bullet is? Is it maybe for hunting? I'm not going to hunt. I target shoot with cast and use JHPs for defense. I just dont know the purpose of the TC bullet I guess.

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Edubya posted this 26 November 2009

I have the SAECO #929 TC and the SAECO #384 RN. I can see my holes from 15 yds with the TN. The TC has a shoulder that opens up the hole like a WC. It makes a great target round, no feed problems in my two Springfields. EW

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Veral Smith posted this 27 November 2009

Feeding reliability of simi auto handgun bullets is determined first by whether the end of the bullet always enters the chamber without hanging up, and secondly by whether the ogive is properly shaped so it pulls the front of the cartridge down smoothly as it slides through the chamber.

If a TC or SWC bullet is too slim on the ogive, it may not tip the front of the cartridge down well enough. Also, SWC shoulders can hang a round up if the chamber mouth has sharp enough edges or the cartridge isn't guided into the chamber fairly well centered.

Roundnose bullets are probably the most reliable feeders made, but are also deliver the poorest terminal ballistics on live targets. In my opinion, the best nose form for cast is a shape similar to rounded ogive jacketed HP's and flatnoses. A cast bullet shaped this way, with maximum meplat width that will feed reliable, will kill better than JHP's on all but the smallest critters. I'm speaking here of animals small enough that the JHP can act as a varminter bullet.

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hunterspistol posted this 27 November 2009

     I'll take that question.  A TC bullet is made for a target pistol that breaks open or maybe a revolver.  They're more designed to shoot 100 meters accurately than they are to feed.  A Truncated Cone, Semi-Wadcutter, etc. is used to punch paper at that distance.  Some roundnose target molds even have a ridge around the outside to cut nice holes. Most have a gas-checked or flat base. We use a lot of flat-nosed bullets for silhouette. That's where the single shots excel. 

     I've worked with the Lyman Devastator in 9mm recently too. It becomes a lot more accurate in the single shot Contender than it does in my auto. The Contender will group it at 50 meters pretty good.  The automatic has never shot that good with any bullet.

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tturner53 posted this 27 November 2009

Hey Veral! Nice to hear from you. I always appreciate hearing what you have to say. My thoughts on 9mm or any autoloader for that matter is reliability first and always. I've carried for real, and would never feel handicapped with plain old FMJ round nose. I know the terminal performance is poor compared to HPs and etc., but I can live with that. I'm real big on penetration when it comes to handgun rounds, and shot placement. Also multiple hits, which is the main advantage of a pistol anyway. My thinking is if a couple ball rounds to the heart and one to the cranium don't do it I'm looking for a new place to be. In a revolver there's no reason not to choose a more effective bullet shape, but in a defensive round I still look at penetration first, even in a revolver. Target shooting is a whole 'nother ballgame. None of the above really applies. If I was carrying cast bullets in a 9mm for serious stuff I'd choose a round nose and just practice bullet placement a lot. Imagine how you'd feel getting a lead roundnose at 900 fps in your adam's apple. There is one cast 9mm bullet I want to try, the various copies of the 147 gr. HP Winchester load, I do like that one, it'd be my first choice in a HP.

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JetMech posted this 28 November 2009

tturner53 wrote: reliability first and always.Second that! I bought a Springfield Armoury 1911 second hand that the owner had installed some after-market parts. The first thing I did was to take it to a gunsmith, who was, at that time (1981), listed as one of the top 100 pistol smiths be the American Pistol Smith's Guild. I told him that all I wanted was 100% reliabilty. He asked what round I was using. At that time, the CCI lawman round was the 200 gn “Flying Ashtray” and that's what I wanted to use. He said “no problem". That's exactly what I got, too. Unfortunately, the CCI lawman is now a FMJ round, but I still get 100% reliability with any factory round and, like you said, Tim, a couple FMJs, properly placed, does the job. I just make sure my magazines are carefullly inspected periodically. I use Chip McCormick Shooting Stars only.

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Veral Smith posted this 29 November 2009

I used to think RN's were OK, and for sure you are right about them being able to mess things up, but since I have learned that flatnose bullets WHICH HAVE ENOUGH MEPLAT are so much more effective, and feed just as reliably, I won't use rn's not even in a 22 rimfire for small critters. The big wakeup for me was when I popped a slaughter cow in the forehead with a 45 acp shooting factory jacketed rn, or ball ammo. She folded, I turned around, laid the gun on a barrel and picked up a knife to slit her throat, but she was up and coming toward me. I switched equipment on the double and burned the hair off her forehead with the next shot, which worked very professionally. Moral to the story is. I missed the brain by half an inch with the RN and it wasn't good enough. Had it been one of my flatnose bullets she'd have stayed down for the count, because the skull would have been crushed for an inch in all directions from the bullets path. As for penetration. The flatnose will go deeper than the RN, given the same bullet weight and velocity. Why? Because the Flatnose is going through empty space, it's flat haveing sprayed everything in its path to the side. If its going through flesh there will be around a 3/4 inch hole all the way through, all if it giving rapid blood loss. With decent body hits this means incapacitation before the gun comes out of recoil. The RN leaves such a tiny wound one has to keep the eyes pealed to track it through an animal he is butchering, and because it isn't displacing the tissue ahead of it, like a large flatnose, the tissue drags the side of the bullet slowing its penetration faster than the flatnose. I sincerely hope this little explaination and account make a few people more nervious about carring RN ammo for defense perposes. Most TC bullet have such a small meplat that they aren't much better than RNs.

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JetMech posted this 29 November 2009

Veral Smith wrote: I sincerely hope this little explaination and account make a few people more nervious about carring RN ammo for defense perposes. Most TC bullet have such a small meplat that they aren't much better than RNs.There was a story floating around when the U.S. Army switched from the 1911 to the 9mm about an Israeli Colonel during the 6 Day War, who was setting up a CP in a building in Jordan. His troops had supposedly cleared the building. He went up to one of the above floors and encountered 4 enemy troops, resting. He pulled his 9mm Browning Hi Power and shot all 4 several times using service ammo, which is round nose. Then they killed him.

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KenK posted this 29 November 2009

I shot a feral bulldog mix one time with a .45 acp and ball ammo. She was about 50' away and I made a good shot, right behind the shoulder. I shot her 2-3 more times before I had to retreat to the hood of my truck. I stayed there until I heard her stop breathing. 4-5 minutes later.

I agree that round nose, full metal patch bullet is about a poor of a killing round as it would be possible to devise.

I don't think increasing the diameter from 9mm to .45 helps a whole lot either.

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tturner53 posted this 29 November 2009

I'm not about to dispute the poor terminal effects of round nose fmj, If shot placement is not optimal. My thinking is there is no substitute for feeding and function reliability, but there is a substitute for improved terminal performance, which is shot placement and penetration.. Think of the great elephant hunters, who used full patch or round nose and depended entirely on penetrating and hitting the brain. Then there is always the spine, which makes a pretty good sized target too, and it's behind the heart. I wonder how long that dog would have lasted with a bullet in it's brainbox or heart. There's no more you can do than take out the central nervous system or failing that the pump. My guess is there's probably about equal amount of stories in which the good guy dies due to poor terminal balistics vs. jams caused by higher performance bullet shapes. My thinking is influenced by the way I see handguns as a CLOSE range weapon used only because I can't reach my .......I'll repeat myself, I wouldn't consider using handloads of any kind in my home for self defense, I live in California and wouldn't want to get sued over it.    EDIT; Maybe I should have mentioned that although I have a few pistols my 'fightin' guns are DA revolvers loaded with modern HP bullets.

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Veral Smith posted this 30 November 2009

What few people understand is that when terminal ballistics are right, and by that I mean the bullet punches around a one inch hole straight through, the effet so far as personal safety is the same as if the nerve system were shut down. If the victim of the shot doesn't drop instantly, which is normal, they cannot move, think or do anything, but simply stand or moves slowly for a second or two then folds, dead. On game up to moose and the big bears. I think anything smaller will stand less. And feeding/function reliability is not forfeted in any way. No factory or custom loaded hollow point can duplicate this type performance. Not even come close.

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Dale53 posted this 30 November 2009

I have NOT killed hundreds of large animals. However, I have put a few deer in the freezer and have shot a truck load of small game. I have seen what round nose bullets do on small game and it is pretty pathetic. I would NEVER risk my skin shooting a round nose bullet against anything live.

Veral is spot on. I even use a “performance bullet” when shooting paper.

If your pistol will not reliably feed a proper bullet THEN GET IT FIXED!

I shot IPSC for five years, running 75,000 SWC's through my 1911's. I had exactly ONE failure to feed. This was MY fault when I accidentally retarded the slide with my thumb (it cost me a major match, too). A good pistol will actually feed empties. If you value your skin or just want to be humane with live targets, use a proper bullet and fix your pistol to feed it.

The difference in stopping power between a good bullet and a round nose is almost astounding. My deer have all been killed with handloaded .44 Magnums and the excellent cast bullets with a large meplat put a 3/4” hole clear through the deer (and on two occasions end for end. I have NEVER recovered a cast bullet from a deer - it is through and through regardless of what is hit, or whether it is side to side or front to back. Hundreds of others have reported the same thing.

The only deer I ever lost was from experimental use of a 180 gr Hollow point in a .44 Magnum at very high velocity. It didn't penetrate, left NO blood trail and I lost the deer. Object lesson to me...

FWIW Dale53

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amb1935 posted this 02 December 2009

I ended up getting a TC mold and sizing to .356. I tried loading some rounds as cast, but I had to seat them way too deep to get them to chamber reliably. I'll load up some sized rounds this weekend and pop a few off to see how they shoot. I'm also trying out two new lubes.

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Wineman posted this 02 December 2009

I found that in my 38 super a 158 gr 0.358 swc seated to make the case headspace on the bullet (original Colt Series 70 barrel) helped my accuracy. I have not had any FTF issues either. It has only punched paper so nothing to report on stopping power.

Wineman

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