MOSIN MOLD!!

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  • Last Post 13 January 2010
Vassal posted this 10 January 2010

I am about to try and get a decent mold for the Mosins. I am leaning toward NEI, as they have a design that seems to be pretty much what I need. I have not heard much about them specifically; Are they pretty good?

Does anyone shoot the 316-200-GC #85A ?

Everyone loves LBT, but I don't see a design that fits, and I'm not sure about slugging the throat. (Don't get me thinking about all these “throating” and “leade Angle” things that don't make sense to me - how can you throat {i.e. remove material} a rifle thats already throated without moving the barrel back? isn't that making the throat longer?)

Any help would be great. Thanks

 

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KenK posted this 10 January 2010

I have bought a couple NEI moulds recently and have been pleased with the moulds and the service. If you are picky about this kind of thing; I will warn you that externally they are not finished as nicely as most other moulds. They look kind of “homemade".

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Veral Smith posted this 10 January 2010

I've looked at a lot of Mosin throat slugs and haven't seen one yet that should be throated. They have all been quite long, and normally well worn. You don't need to stick with the bullets shown in my catalog/website. Contact me and I'll make one special for you.

Best set up for use in several guns is to have me cut the forward part of the bearing to fit the largest bore, at rifling origin, of the rifles you have, and largest throat origin of the rifles you have, just forward of where the case mouth will be. This bullet can be sized as necessary to fit tham all and give extremely good performance.

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tturner53 posted this 10 January 2010

I have found that .318 works good in mine.

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Veral Smith posted this 10 January 2010

Keep in mind that ALL guns are individuals, so what works in one may not work at all in another and for sure has a good chance of not being the best size. When a bullet is fitted for optimum precision, there will be little effort required to make it “drive tacks.” If one follows what works in someone elses gun, he'll probably spend more than the price of the mold experimenting (ignorantly) with variious loads etc and never be satisfied with performance. You can't put bullets in balance with the powder charge. It has to be done by the mold maker and how they are sized. If they aren't fitted with precision, they will leave the tube out of balance and make targets which turn your mouth like so :-(

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Vassal posted this 11 January 2010

Perhaps that is where the confusion comes from. I only own military rifles (hi power that is.) Even though half my Mosins were Unfired when I got them they are throated long to begin with. I guess other guns are more “different” than I assumed.

I wouldn't mind a mold that was rough around the edges, but I think I will Contact Veral and see what the options are. I have two Mosins that I use for cast. I guess I will have to slug both throats and send them in. I like the idea of such personal and tailored service. NOW I just have to find a method for slugging the throats without scratching new grooves in the rifling!:puke: 

I don't know what I would do if i ruined a pristine 80 year old rifle! OR TWO!!

I suppose the critical part is to find a rod the right size. I would'nt be concerned if I could find a soft rod a little larger than 1/4” but I have been through some pretty fitfull experiences - fast driving trips to the hardware store when my cleaning rod is stuck in a slug in my barrel:shock: followed by a ruined $25 cleaning rod and more trips to the hardware store only to NOT find what In needed:drillsgt:. Finally I got the stuff out, but trying again is already begining to anger me. I guess I'll start by going (at a normal pace) to the hardware stores and see if they have anything-I'm sure they don't. I have a brass rod of .187 that was the best I have found yet. hardwood won't work (even when slow) LBT suggests a “cold rolled steel rod” I have seen some steel rods but I am not taking the chance that they are or aren't the proper sort. steel is hard and if the rod had been steel last time I would have a ruined bore. Of course all of that was on my “beater” Mosin which I shoot alot and experiment on. I'll have to be sure before I try this on my super-duper cast shooters.

Aside from that I guess I just cast a bullet of pure lead and set it on top of a lead filled case and beat it untill....:dunce: 

Just seems like the rod could squeeze to the side and hammer into the bore.

(After reading VERAL's other response, and HUNTERSPISTOL's response I guess I will be patient and wait for a couple slugs.)

.318 !!! Thats the biggest I have heard of yet! I have not measured a fired case against an unfired one yet (in my cast rifles) but I thought .316 would fill the chamber! Is .318 a pretty “snug” fit?

Hell,, I don't Know what is going on!!!!!!!!!!!!!:butthead1::vio:

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raytear posted this 11 January 2010

I have not used any LBT moulds. I understand they are excellent. One of my “I'll do it when I retire” projects involves at least one LBT mould.

I have one NEI mould of my own and have had opportunity to use a couple of others. They have done excellent work for me. The 2 cavity 358-282 (RNFP GC style) which I use in my favorite bolt action rifle, caliber .35 Whelen, takes a little while to get up to temperature, but once there drops consistent bullets that I would put up next to anyone else's.

An NEI 308-182 that belongs to a friend casts bullets that may be the favorite of a low number '03 Springfield of my acquaintance. The testing is still going on to finally determine that. Again, once up to temp it drops beautifully formed RN, slightly flattened point, GC style slugs. That same bullet is greatly disliked by a Ruger No. 1 that shoots Speer jacketed 165 grain BTSP's or Hornady 220 grain RNs into sub 1 minute groups.

For all that, I know of a Yugo M-1924 with a shiny, pit-free bore that very much likes Lee's 175 grain 8mm GC bullet. It is capable of putting weight segregated bullets of that ilk into groups smaller than most shooters are capable of holding. Lee moulds are far from pretty.

To summarize my own experience, and my personal understanding of other posters' is something like this: There are some bullet designs, alloys, lubes, loads, and techniques that are generally liked by large numbers of firearms. Your pieces may be in that category. But don't count TOO HEAVILY upon that being the case.

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tturner53 posted this 11 January 2010

The .318 bullets I've used are a tapered Loverin type much like a Saeco 315 but with more lube grooves. I size just the bottom to seat the gas check and prevent a bulge which would prevent chambering. I'm just getting started with this cartridge and have a lot to learn, but the results have been ok so far, some 2” or better groups at 50 yds as issued. My guns aren't pristine.

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Veral Smith posted this 12 January 2010

If you do a bit of research, you'll find that brass gets much harder than mild steel when hammered on a bit. Work hardening it is called. Bearing companies warn against using brass to drive bearings as it will mark hardened steel races. Cold rolled won't. 1/4 inch is the diameter you need, and just wrap it with tape if you are an 'afrady cat'. Caution is wisdom, always, so don't take my pun on the chin! Just read my instructions carefully and you won't scratch or dent your priceless barrel.

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raytear posted this 12 January 2010

Veral,

Your recent post re:brass work hardening to the point where it will mark steel is interesting and useful info! I am not a professional metal worker, but have always been interested in that kind of thing. I will be much more careful how I use my brass drifts from now on!

Does it make sense to occasionally anneal a brass drift?

Many thanks!

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Vassal posted this 12 January 2010

Interesting. These things are good to know because I am definitely an “Afrady' cat.” No worries about my chin; it has aparently become “Work Hardened!” :D

I realise that my concerns may seem trite to others who have done these things before, and those who shoot more “valuable” guns. This is a simple procedure, but without experience things can go wrong, and as an unemployed student I have no reliable way of replacing even these guns. ( I would figure something out but it may take months to raise the money for an unfired m39 - and I have never seen another 91-30 like the one I have. admitedly I have not looked much. I have only been shooting/ buying or looking at guns for one year.)

I appreciate the information and the detailed instructions and service.

 I will call around and asked for “cold rolled steel” rods. And when I find one I'm gonna beat the cosmoline out of those ratty old rifles :wnk:                            :riflebr:

 

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CB posted this 12 January 2010

A lot of the hardware stores carried basic steel stock for the home user. They have cold rolled and hot rolled steel, I have seen it in various diameters and lengths, most are SAE (fractional and based upon the foot measure), this stuff is great for small projects.

The better stuff can get expensive.

Jerry

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Veral Smith posted this 13 January 2010

Annealing a brass punch will definately soften it but one or two raps against something will bring the hardness right back up. Mild steel workhardens very little. If a very soft punch is wanted 6061 aluminum rod is probably the best choice as it's available from most metal suppliers, in 12 foot lengths, while pure aluminum is harder to find, but even softer. Aluminum will leave a smear on steel surfaces, especially blued steel, if it slips at all, and possibly even if it doesn't slip. Pure copper also work hardens very little, and makes excellent soft punches. Such soft punches bend easily though, so I silver solder copper to a steel rod to make the best and most rugged soft punch possible, that I know of.

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tturner53 posted this 13 January 2010

Vassal, I have slugged the barrels on several of my rifles and also done chamber casts with the throats included with some rifling. It was good to know but the end result was I could have learned everything I Needed to know by measuring the inside neck of a few fired cartridges. The chamber casting of one of my MNs told me I needed a pretty fat bullet, sure enough I did. The cases measure .318” inside neck diameter, after firing, so I go for .001” under that, as long as they will chamber without difficulty. Then I seat them out long, to just engage the rifling. You can see marks on the bullet nose when you pull it out and look at it in a good light. Sometimes I put something on the bullet nose to help make it easier to see the marks, like felt tip pen ink. These two things seem to get the bullet started straighter, which I understand is critical to good accuracy. So far these will still function thru the magazine, though I single load them shooting paper. The reality I ran into with these, and some SMLEs, was there isn't an off the shelf bullet mold that's just right. A cheap way to get the ball rolling might be to 'beagle' a Lee .312, or size down a Lee .323. That's what I did until I got ahold of Wineman's custom mold. As far as Veral's molds go, the one I just got, Jeff's GB 358 is a work of art. Once you've got the fat bullets comes hurdle #2, managing the brass and how to size/expand best for these fatties.

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