Mosin Nagant question?

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  • Last Post 25 March 2010
nimrod posted this 15 March 2010

I was recently given a MN 91-30 I think, don.t know much about milsurps, barrel is in pretty good shape except for the muzzle, needs to be cut off and new sight. forestock is missing. There is 1937 stamped on top of the barrel in front of the receiver with the number 41 stamped on the bottom, this is a round receiver with more little stamps and marks on it that I have seen on any two or three rifles put together. The real question is that the bolt number does not match the number on the barrel, looking at the bottom of the receiver there is three numbers stamped that do match three of the bolt numbers is this safe to shoot? I would like to turn this into a scout setup if possible for a truck rifle and general use camp gun, hopefully shoot cast in it.

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canalupo posted this 15 March 2010

Nimrod

Moisin Nagants were recovered after the war and sent to an arsenal to be checked and refitted. They were known to take "good” parts from damaged rifles and mix and match to get a rifle that worked .....hopefully.

Many times they will have several sets of numbers and from different rifles. There were several “versions” of Nagant. 91/30 is the most common, it came in two versions hexagonal receiver and round receiver. Hexagonal is the early version, supposed to be stronger and is more desireable. 1937 is a later version with a shorter barrel and usually was considered a “sniper” version. I believe it was redisigned again in 1944 because the barrel was still too long for close combat.

Get it checked by a competent gunsmith. Check chamber with go and no-go gages, cast chamber if you can. Slug barrel, Make sure barrel crown is same as bore dia. or bigger. If everything checks out, Set up in a rifle vise and test fire with a string from a safe distance. 

Good luck

Bob D

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nimrod posted this 15 March 2010

Thanks I will do that.

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Vassal posted this 15 March 2010

Those seem like good ideas. I will add that ther is a tremendous option for a traditional type mount (as opposed to scout) at Rock Solid Ind.

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giorgio de galleani posted this 15 March 2010

The Mosin Nagant has a split  rear bridge action,and can mount only cumbersome lateral mounts, ( I do not like) or scout mounts applied on the rear sight base.

My preferred solution for this action.

I had a long barrel fake Mosin sniper,with  a lateral mount with  inch scopes I got from Numrich Gun Parts, together with a curved bolt handle,cumbersome.awkward and not allowing the correct position of my face (cheek weld) on the stock.

Traded the piece some time ago,got a short,new 44mag Marlin carbine,light and handy,and short range boar medicine.

I am looking for a short barrel Mosin carbine just like the one of Nimrod's project., unfortunately Italian gun control laws does not allow barrel shortening,and I am finding only  dozens of the fishing rod  lenght mosins in the gunshops,but one has to be a patient gun searcher.

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Vassal posted this 15 March 2010

http://www.rocksolidind.com>http://www.rocksolidind.com

We like Mosins in Missouri!!!!  Get ahold of my friend in KC.

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nimrod posted this 15 March 2010

Thanks Vassal I live just south of Kanas City I do like the looks of the rocksolid mounts but first thing for me is to see how well this old Rusky shoots.

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Vassal posted this 15 March 2010

Whatever you make sure you give her some attention before you give up on her. I just recently began to coax good groups (1.3” @100 with Issue iron & jacketed -Hornady RNSP) out of Vasily. Vasily is the first High power rifle I ever bought and he has good rifling but the bore is dark. He was 3"-4” from the store. these guns CAN shoot, but they may take some patients -------

----------Of course your experience may vary:kilroy:

PS----JB, acraglass, & 4350!

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nimrod posted this 16 March 2010

Are you shooting .311 bullets my bore measures .301 X .312 all I have for jackets is .308. Actually the bore looks very good, dark but sharp rifling except for the last couple inches and even that is just bad on one groove and land where it looked like some water has set and rusted that pretty deep. I'll make a chamber cast and see what kind of throat it has, my real desire is to shoot cast maybe even paper patch been reading some stuff on that and would like to try it. Thanks for the tips I'm not in any hurry on this project just take my time and see what developes.

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Vassal posted this 16 March 2010

I have had good excellent results (like those mentioned earlier) ONLY with Hornady bullets. Aside from boutique type bullets, they are the only ones who make .312 bullets. They have 174 RNSP (my favorite) and also some 150 spire points, but I have yet to see any of the 150's actaully in stock. They also make 100 grain XTP's designed for pistols but they shoot well with 2400. I have actaully managed a three shot group of .6” @ 100, (and routinely get sub MOA) but that was a 44 VKT M39 with issue Iron, not a 91-30; though I bet it could do it !!!!!!!!.

EDIT: My experience leads me to believe that the Sierra .311's can be made to shoot pretty well in a .312 but probably not as well (or as easily) as the Hornady's. Vasily is closer to .314 than .313, for what its worth. I do have a 91-30 with .312 (Lyudmilla) but she has been mostly saved for cast as her bore is essentially brand new.

 

I have had a hard time getting all the things I need to REALLY start with cast, BUT thats about to change. I am expecting a Mold from VERAL @ LBT this week!

I hope you get that thing “drivin' tacks!” When you do Remember to report back here. We are very interested in your experiences, succeses and failures. Maybe we can start a Missouri Mosin Cast Bullet Sniper team!:thinking:

Missourians for Mosins!!

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nimrod posted this 16 March 2010

That's a good one MISSOURIANS FOR MOSINS I will report back.

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[email protected] posted this 16 March 2010

My Mosin, made in 1942, has a .313 bore with good sharp rifeling.I tried a Seaco 180gr .309 diameter. They came out the end of the barrel ok but hit sideways at 25 yards. I bought a Lee C312-185-1R made for the 303 British but they came out of the mold at .311 using wheel wieghts and were also basically a failure. I decided to try my hand at polishing the mold bigger, spinning a bullet in the mold impaled with a tap covered with valve grinding coumpound as an abrasive. I got the thing out of round with just a little bit of work micing .314 - .317. The thing shoots 3/4 to 1 inch at 25 yards, but it is a dickens to chamber. I only tried a light load of unique shooting about 20 rounds. I quit using that load because of the tight chambering and not trying anything else since. The point is the rifle has potential and these Russians seem to fit my 6'4” frame and the sights are clear,much better than the Mausers. A proper fitting cast bullet is on my wish list. Penn castbullets lists a 180 gr. .313 special sizing that I might try one of these days when I take the notion. Flashman

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linoww posted this 16 March 2010

" I am expecting a Mold from VERAL @ LBT this week!"

I had Veral make me a 205g “sort of” copy of the 311467 Loverin bullet.It has a .311 body and the ft band before the .301 short nose is .304.it would seem to be too small in the body for the big bore 'ruskies,but shoots 1.5-2.5 MOA regularly at 100 with the issue sights in two 91-30's.The more i shoot .30 cal loverin style bullets the more i like some of them. The ft band needs to be a bit reduced to enter the throat for them to work i think.Some 311466's are full cylindrical and don't shot as well as the ones with the reduced diameter ft band/bands.All the 311467's i have seen have the reduced ft  bands.The 311465's are cylndrical bodies,but are so short they seem to do OK.

I like 16.0 of 2400,12.0 of Unique and lately 12.0 of Trail Boss,all with pistol primers

George

Bullet on left is Lyman 311467 that inspired the LBT on the right

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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nimrod posted this 17 March 2010

linoww I have a Hock mold very much like your LBT but it only goes to about .311 also have a Saeco 315 that may go upwards of .313 to .314 on the bottom bands depending on alloy. Been thinking about dies and the question is if you need a .314 diameter bullet what brand of dies will resize for a cast bullet of that diameter? Since it is a 7.62 I'm guessing that most of the dies made will size for a .308 bullet. And thank everyone for the help I appreciate all the info that I can get.

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Vassal posted this 17 March 2010

Thats a nice Bullet!, I am suprised that it shoots at .311 though  HMMMM??

I have used a standard RCBS seater die with bullets approaching .314 without trouble. I guess they are not that tight. I am waiting till I can afford a COMP seater of some sort, I sort of (sort of not) hope that one won't seat the fatties, at least then I could pretend to understand what was going on in there!  :dunce:

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Ed Harris posted this 17 March 2010

In my Nagants I have had good results with the NEI #69 loaded as-cast from wheelweights and unsized, crimping on Hornady GCs in a .314 die, tumble lubing in Lee Liquid Alox with 15.5 grains of #2400 and Winchester primers. Bullets weigh about 162 grains from wheelweights with GC and lube.  This basic load seems to work well in almost any .30 or .303 military rifle and is where I start with any unknown.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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shastaboat posted this 17 March 2010

before you go cutting off the barrel you might think about counterboring the muzzle to keep the original contour.

Because I said so!

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Vassal posted this 17 March 2010

AHH Counterbore is a very APT suggestion. Good catch!

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nimrod posted this 17 March 2010

Actually I have thought about a counterbore if replacment stocks are available. I have looked around a few places and haven't found any yet. I'm sure that if one could be had this rifle could be brought back into original shape pretty easy.

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raytear posted this 18 March 2010

I have seen replacement stocks advertised, both original style and sporter. Seems like MidwayUSA, Boyd's, and GunParts/Numrich were the places.

From the Texas hill country, where the sun is shining and the wildflowers are coming into bloom.

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redball2 posted this 18 March 2010

Lino I like lovern bullet designs. I have  a 311466 that lyman made a little undersized at one time. it casts about 309 in wheelweights and work well in most any 30 caliber. It is one of the easiest 30 cal gas check bullets to get accurate velocity above  2200 f/s and shoot in at least 2 inches.

at one time I used it with 13 grains of unique in a '06 for sporting rifle matches. it would stay in the 200 yd x ring if I could. great! no recoil. One time I was shooting at baker city ore and another gentleman was shooting his 300 weatherby with full loads. him first shot was a good one but none of the rest hit the target

I also have 311467 and it shoots well in about anything that it will chamber in. it casts about 311 or 312. but not all chambers does it fit well.

LLoyd De Vore told me that 311467 was very reliable when he tried it.

the little 225438. designed for the hornet many years ago is still one of the best for slow twist 22 cal rifles.

of course , like all mass produced moulds the tolerances can vary a lot at different times

Jim Wilcox

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tturner53 posted this 19 March 2010

For those molds casting too small, remember you can 'beagle' the mold, adding 2-3 thousandths. I did it, works good. In time it gets old and I was able to get proper sized molds, but the beagle trick does work. The 'out of round' factor has been a non-issue.

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Mnshooter posted this 19 March 2010

I had a carbine model that actually ahd a decent trigger pull. Problem was that the barrel slugged at 317. I really could not get it to shoot all that well as my best molds throw about 314.

MNshooter

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Vassal posted this 20 March 2010

WOW .317! time for 8mm!!!

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nimrod posted this 25 March 2010

Some success! I talked to a gunsmith friend, lives about 150 miles away, he does have a reamer and head space guages in case they are needed. But found some surplus ammo tied her in a lead sled, tied a string to the trigger, backed off to a safe distance, closed eyes, turned away, and jerked. Well it went bang, bolt opened ok shell looked great just like my chamber cast did four more times. Looks like a go deal so I shot five shots off my shoulder at 100 yards grouped about 2.5” I'm pretty happy with that I sure I can reload some ammo better than some commie can make it. So major cleanup hot water and all ordered some brass, dies, and condom bullets (hate them things) but figure a couple boxes won't hurt anything and give me a little time to figure out what I need for a cast bullet.

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Vassal posted this 25 March 2010

INDEED!!

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