Overweight Bullets

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  • Last Post 02 April 2012
billglaze posted this 26 May 2011

Recently, I bought an RCBS mould in 7 mm.  Nicely made, and it immediately started dropping bullets graded from “satisfactory” to “excellent."  (Personal grading system!)<G> But--it was listed by RCBS, as well as by Midway, as being 168 gr. in weight. Actually, the bullets weigh 180 gr. which is heavier than I wanted for the 7 mm. I admit that I've not yet shot any of these bullets, which may make me look pretty foolish, (to be questioning) but the bullet is awfully long, and, inasmuch as all my lead bullet shooting is at less than 1800 ft./sec., I am concerned about stabilizing such a long bullet. Has anybody had similar experiences with moulds?  I'm casting with W-W, and am certainly not dissatisfied with the mould.  It shows excellent craftsmanship, and many times will drop bullets freely, without tapping the mould handle hinge line.  IMHO, that's a mark of precision machining. In any event, I'm looking for comments from anybody with applicable experience. BTW: I'll get a chance to shoot some of these bullets next week, and will post the results, if anybody shows interest. Bill Glaze

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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pat i. posted this 26 May 2011

I think RCBS uses lino when they set the weight on their rifle bullet moulds. You'll gain about 6%, or around 11 grains in your case, if switching from lino to WW so you're right where you should be weightwise. I always thought the length of a bullet was a damned site more important than the weight anyway so either switch to lino if you want a lighter bullet or shoot the bullet at 180 grs and be happy you picked up a little weight for free.

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James Ball posted this 26 May 2011

i also have found length tobe more important than weight.the longer the better in my opinion.shoot the long one be happy.let us know how it goes.James Ball

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billglaze posted this 27 May 2011

Ill be shooting this long bullet next week; I'll post any results that seem interesting to folks. BTW: When I lived in Las Vegas, I was in Mesquite, NV quite a bit. My wife and I found it a great place to stop for lunch on the way to St. George, UT. At the time, there was only one casino, and a good, if small, retaurant on the north edge of town, a couple of gas stations just off I-15, and the airport. Besides a golf course, that was about it. Nice town. Would like to live there, myself.

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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PETE posted this 27 May 2011

I'll agree with Pat. Casting with an alloy other than what the mould maker uses will give a different wgt. Casting bullets as small as. 22 cal. has given me a two gr. difference in wgt. from lino to 50/50 lino/ww's.

The thing to remember tho is that it's the length of the bullet that determines whether a given bullet will work in your particular gun and twist rate, not it's wgt.

Pete

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corerf posted this 27 May 2011

12 gr is a big weight change from specs.

I can see 5 gr but not 12. For giggles, is there any way the mold is mismarked for a similar heavier bullet?

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billwnr posted this 27 May 2011

Don't forget the weight of the gas check and lube. Inquisitive minds have weighed them to see how much is added to the weight of a bullet.

Wheelweight bullets are heavier than linotype bullets, then there's the gascheck and lube. Every little bit adds up.

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pat i. posted this 27 May 2011

corerf wrote: 12 gr is a big weight change from specs.

I can see 5 gr but not 12. For giggles, is there any way the mold is mismarked for a similar heavier bullet? A 10 or 11 gr weight gain when switching from lino to WW with a 170 gr bullet is about what should be expected. According to Greenhill you should be able to run a bullet about 1.300 long with the approximately 9 inch twist barrels common to 7mm rifles so I don't think the op should have to worry about the bullet being too long.

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billglaze posted this 03 July 2011

Well, the fun just never stops. The 7mm RCBS mould that I bought, (see previous posting) appears to have a “bore rider” parallel section ahead of the first driving band; which is one of the reasons I selected it in the first place. I kept wondering why this bullet had to be seated so deeply in the 7mm Remington Magnum case. Seems that the bore-riding section of the bullet is some .0012” (twelve ten-thousandths) too large to fit in the bore. The only way it will fit in the bore is if it's driven in just as if I'm looking to slug the bore. (Which is just what I've done, which is how I got the .0012” measurement.) I don't see any cure for this, except to contact RCBS directly, and explain what I've got, and what I need. I simply don't like that much slug extending into the case. And, I want the stability (read: pre-alignment) of a bore-rider as the bullet leaves the case. Other suggestions?

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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billwnr posted this 03 July 2011

I shot/shoot this bullet in my 7mm Mauser at just under 1000 fps for grouse loads when deer hunting. At 25 and 50 yards it groups in the .25 and .375 inch range. Beyond 50 yards it gets too hard to precisely determine where to hold to pop a grouse.

Also, there's no such thing as an overweight bullet. Underweight yes, as the mould doesn't fill out properly. But overweight bullets are definitely usable.

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Wayne S posted this 03 July 2011

pat i. wrote: I think RCBS uses lino when they set the weight on their rifle bullet moulds. You'll gain about 6%, or around 11 grains in your case, if switching from lino to WW so you're right where you should be weightwise. I always thought the length of a bullet was a damned site more important than the weight anyway so either switch to lino if you want a lighter bullet or shoot the bullet at 180 grs and be happy you picked up a little weight for free. Pat, you are correct, RCBS started using lino way back when they got into the mold making business. I've had “several” talks with their servive Reps. about molds casting undersized bullets using WW or  3-1 WW/lino. their responce every time was that  management  didn't want to go through the work to recast everything from a “generic WW alloy. You can bitch & gripe HOPE, you get a mold back that casts what you want. 2. Since you know your  Lands or bore Dia.  ask who might make a custom sizing die for your Lub-sizer 3. ask here and on Cast Boolits who has the 168 SP mold that casts with or close <.003> +- to what you want 4. Consider a trade for the lighter 145 -<150-155 w/ WW> RCBS 145 Sil.

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CB posted this 03 July 2011

If you think about it, lino makes perfect sense. There is only one alloy spec for lino, but there are no specs for wheelweights. So, for the sake of consistency, RCBS specs lino.

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billglaze posted this 07 July 2011

Wayne:

About the comment on the sizing, I have no problem with the bullet being the correct diameter to be properly sized.  My complaint is that the “bore rider” part of the bullet is so oversize it won't go in the bore past the ogive, to get to the parallel section. Therefore, the bullet must be seated so deeply in the case, that there is little/no guidance to keep the bullet's center of form congruent with the C/L of the rifle's bore. 

Commenting about the sizing remark, the parallel section of the forward part of the bullet, if the casting is of the proper diameter, never feels the sizing die.  In my case, the forward section isn't quite THAT large, and remains untouched by the sizing die.

When I explained to the Customer Services Rep, he told me that the mould should drop bullets that fit the bore and actually be a “bore riders".  I've had some good success with their Bore Rider in 6mm.  I feel that there is more to come in the 6, and if I can get a bullet out of the 7mm mould that is the way I want it, I feel there should be potential in the 7mm also.

And so it goes.

We'll see how this plays out.

Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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giorgio de galleani posted this 11 July 2011

I did quit buying moulds from the big makers some years ago.

Getting correct diameter bullets from them is similar to buying lottery tickets.

Some times you are lucky ,some times you are not.

That's why custom mold makers exist.

I prefer  spending my money in LBT moulds,or ,Ranchdog moulds,and have some good gang molds from old Nei manifacture.

As far as 7 mm moulds go,in a Brazilian long 1908 mauser I was lucky with a Lee special order trash can 6 cavity mould I bought some time ago.

There is a great variation in 7mm rifles, and in their throat conditions ,one size cannot fit all.

You cannot hope to get custom service from a mass producer.

 This idea is not an invention of mine,I just follow an advice of a story in an old fouling shot,if memory serves me by Glen Leatham.

 

  

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billglaze posted this 12 July 2011

I've sent the mould back to RCBS (at the customer services representative's request) and we'll see how it goes. IMHO, the mould is unusable as it presently exists. (Of course, I don't have it any more--they do.) And, the proof of the pudding--it shoots poorly. I know they can do better than this; I've been using their stuff since 1954, when Fred Huntington was the Chief Cook and Bottle Washer. Their 6mm is perfectly proportioned to “ride the bore” and shoots very well. And, several .30 cal. moulds I've got are slip-fits in the bores of my various rifles. I'm betting they come up with something; I'll keep the forum informed (amused?) as things occur. Bill Glaze

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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galenaholic posted this 12 July 2011

I have the RCBS #30-180-FN. It's supposed to be 180 gr. but runn 192 in my alloy. No problems with dimensions though and it is one of my more accurate 30 caliber bullets. I hope you get your problem straightened out. Paul B.

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Coydog posted this 25 September 2011

What I would of done is test the bullet and then work with the powder to make it work for me . I know not every gun shoot the same . That is one of the reason we do reload our own ammo and cast our own . Just what I thinking of ,that is what i do is work with the powder and then go from there. Hope this help .

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Sonny Edmonds posted this 02 February 2012

This may be a stale subject, and in reality it started before I got back into casting myself.... But one thing I have observed that is very widely prevalent is the lack of consistent alloy. For my rifle bullets, I use Lyman #2 from a reliable commercial source. For me, that eliminates one huge variable. http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/lyman2bulletmetal.htm My first 5# of “Wheel Weights” quickly taught me I didn't have a clue what the “alloy” was in those shiny ingots. With the certified alloy, I get very consistent bullets and weights. I have recommended to friends that they get a pound or more of a known reference metal when sorting out a problem like this. Having a “Standard” to work with. Sometimes a giant step backwards can start us off on the right foot. ;)

Lyman #2 is the standard that standards came from. :D

Now my pistol bullets are a whole different cat to skin.....

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.22-10-45 posted this 03 February 2012

Hello, billglaze. I wonder if you could use, or modify a Lyman sizer die to size that oversized nose? Usually my problem is a too small nose! Just be thankful your working with a modern std. 7mm. I purchased a nice pre-war (WW1) Mauser sporting rifle. Every 7mm mould I had cast a bullet with LOTS of light around when jammed up into throat. Those Germans liked oversized grooves for pressure relief. I had Fred Leeth of Pioneer Products make up a nose-pour .289 dia.

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shastaboat posted this 03 February 2012

You might want to try Lee's 7mm bullet. It has shot well for me sized .286.

Because I said so!

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DOGCAPPER posted this 02 April 2012

I shot bullets from that style mold in a B78 7mm mag 9 twist with good results.

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