New Mould!

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Last Post 07 June 2011

Standard Member

Michael Petrov posted this 03 June 2011

I have been shooting a 33 1 6/10” WP on a Ballard for a few years. For the last couple years I've been using my .33-Pope mould and wanted to get a modern one to use so I don't ware out the Pope.

The first mould I ordered was a disaster. Last winter I heard that David Mos was back making moulds so I gave him a try. I sent him some of the Pope bullets and got a mould from him. It seemed to cast good bullets once it was up to temperature but just takes a long time. Plus it weights three times what my Pope mould does. Why are modern moulds so big?

Off my soapbox and back to shooting. It was cool and light rain this AM perfect shooting weather, I like to shoot when the conditions are like that and I have the range to myself ;-).

First shot was a little low changed the scope and fired five from the fouler box which are .2 grain different than the keepers.

5-.830"

Next was the good bullets 5-.458"

Another five shots in .615", rain was picking up so I fired a ten shot @ .815".

Looks like it will work my first mix and first lube with this mould so I'm happy for now, with work I should be able to improve it a lot.

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53 Comments

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Standard Member

Michael Petrov posted this 03 June 2011

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CBA Member

pat i. posted this 03 June 2011

Beautiful rifle and excellent groups. Dave Mos makes some fantastic moulds and if what he told me is true the first ones he cut for gas checked bullets were the three he cut for me. They were 235, 250 and 260 grain 30 cal. tapered bullets. Every one was exactly like the prints I sent him and the 250 grain bullet that I was using in a 30 PPC case at that time set a 10 shot 200 yd CBA Heavy Rifle record that lasted about a month, but it still did even if it was short lived. If he's still cutting moulds I'd recommend him and his moulds to anyone. Hell of a nice guy too.

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 03 June 2011

I'm not sure what I like better !

Your Ballard or that nice group !

Would it be possible to post a picture of your Pope mold beside your new one ?

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Standard Member

Michael Petrov posted this 03 June 2011

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Standard Member

Michael Petrov posted this 03 June 2011

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Match Director

linoww posted this 03 June 2011

I'm all green with envy.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 03 June 2011

Thanks for the mold pics !

Now I don't know if I like the rifle , the group or the molds more ;)

I had a Ideal 32 cal adjustable Perfection mold a year or ago . This thread makes me wish I hadn't sold it :(

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 03 June 2011

I assume the Pope molds are nose pour and if thats correct is the Moss nose pour also ?

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Standard Member

frank l jr posted this 03 June 2011

WOW, just a great bunch of stuff. makes me green with envy. keep up the good work/ see ya frank l jr

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Standard Member

Michael Petrov posted this 03 June 2011

6pt-sika wrote: I assume the Pope molds are nose pour and if thats correct is the Moss nose pour also ?

The Pope moulds are nose pour and the Mos is base pour.

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Standard Member

2Tite posted this 04 June 2011

Wonderful pictures......thank you. But I have to ask...What does this short case look like?

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Standard Member

Michael Petrov posted this 04 June 2011

2Tite wrote: Wonderful pictures......thank you. But I have to ask...What does this short case look like? It's a 357 maximum necked to .33 and trimmed to 1.6. Barrel by Ron Smith, the cartridge was designed by my friend and I.

I made the rifle for fixed ammo for offhand practice but I guess I'm a stool shooter at heart so I now breech seat the bullets and use one case. Most of my shooting is with a Schuetzen rifle, bench rest.

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Standard Member

James Ball posted this 04 June 2011

Fantastic,Gun,Group,Mold not much more anyone could ask for.Keep up the persuit of perfection,I think your almost there.James Ball

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Standard Member

Michael Petrov posted this 04 June 2011

James Ball wrote: I think your almost there.James Ball We all have a different view on where “There” is. I'm not a match shooter and have never been very competitive. Were would I like to be, I work for something that would look a lot like this.

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 04 June 2011

Mike are you using a scope on your fine rifle or just the tang sight ?

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Standard Member

Michael Petrov posted this 04 June 2011

Unertl 12x or Unertl 20x.

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 04 June 2011

Michael Petrov wrote: Unertl 12x or Unertl 20x.

I'm glad to hear that !

I was looking at your group and thinking , man if he didn't use a scope he'd be unbeatable in a match when using a scope !

With my eyes I can't even see that bench rest bull at 100 yards :D

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Standard Member

Michael Petrov posted this 04 June 2011

I'm at the age also that a scope is mandatory. I can shoot with iron sights but don't get the results that I work for.

No need to worry, I'm not a match kind of guy. This is just the first try with this new mould, hopefully the groups will get smaller not bigger. :)

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 04 June 2011

Mike is that your only schuetzen style rifle ?

I like the Ballards and Stevens 44 1/2 quite alot !

My only schuetzen is an austrian falling block in 8.15x46R and that bad boy has no scope . :(

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Standard Member

Michael Petrov posted this 05 June 2011

I've been shooting them since 1972 so have picked up a few over the years.

This is the rifle the .33-Pope mould goes to. A Hartford-Pope .33-47 with all the tools.

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 05 June 2011

Very nice !

Perhaps someday I'll be able to get my hands on a nice old Ballard in 32-40 and or a nice Stevens 44 1/2 in 32-40 or 28-30 !

While I would prefer originals like this 33-47 , I think I could make do with a CPA in 32-40 and full Pope regalia along with extra barrels in 28-30 and 25-21 .

But then I never want much :D

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 05 June 2011

The accoutrament in the lower left hand corner of the box is the “Pope Style” ribbon lube cutter correct ?

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Standard Member

Michael Petrov posted this 05 June 2011

6pt-sika wrote: The accoutrament in the lower left hand corner of the box is the “Pope Style” ribbon lube cutter correct ?

It's a Pope style bullet lubricating pump, it has a die that matches the bullet. You push in the bullet, turn the handle to lube then push out the bullet with the little plunger.

This one is not a Pope and don't remember who made it, it was the man in New York who also made brass moulds about twenty-five years ago.

I have a Pope pump in another set I'll see if I can find a picture.

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 05 June 2011

Mike , thanks taking the time and effort to show your original schuetzen items !

It's very much appreciatted !

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Standard Member

Michael Petrov posted this 05 June 2011

This is a Pope pump, normally they have a bracket for mounting on the bench, the one for this one has been removed.

This set is for a .38-72 Stevens-Pope that was owned by A.O. Niedner and I believe the mould is also a Niedner.

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 05 June 2011

Very nice and thanks !

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Standard Member

Michael Petrov posted this 05 June 2011

6pt-sika wrote: Mike , thanks taking the time and effort to show your original schuetzen items !

It's very much appreciatted ! You're welcome, glad your enjoying them.

I see all kinds of things written about schuetzen rifles and from time to time I like to present the originals for folks to have a better idea on what it was like using the old rifles.

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 05 June 2011

when i used to spend a fair amount of time in eastern PA there were a couple guys up there that colected schuetzen guns and things pretaining to them . They always seemed eager to talk to someone with intrest in their choosen hobby !

I don't live to terribly far from where Charlie Dell lived . I was fortunate enough to have a conversation of sorts with him on the phone once (although it was a little difficult as it seemed he was loosing his hearing) . After that we exchanged a couple letters . I've often wished I'd made the trip down there to meet him !

There's another gentleman in the Lynchburg area which is not to far from me thats kinda big in the ASSRA , as a matter of fact he's the one that now holds Charlie's old match at Brushy Mountain Gun Club in Gretna VA now . I've been fortunate enough to talk with him a time or two as well .

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 05 June 2011

Did you get a chance to look at C.W. Rolands three rifles when they were for sale at public auction a year or two ago ?

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Standard Member

Michael Petrov posted this 05 June 2011

Charlie Dell was an interesting fellow and we exchanged ideas about lube a lot. He did not like my Alox-Beeswax so when I got an nice group using it I always set it to him :).

My wife and I were on vacation one year in the Virginia area so we drove over and visited him, a fun day.

By the time the Roland guns were on the market the prices of original Schuetzen rifles were well out of my reach unless I wanted to sell off what I had, I did not.

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Standard Member

Michael Petrov posted this 05 June 2011

Not the best pictures, but a best rifle, this was Mr. Niedner's Ballard.

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CBA Member

raytear posted this 05 June 2011

I appreciate the photos y'all have posted here. Thanks for doing so.

I'm going to have to get one of those film covers for my keyboard so that the drool these photos inspire doesn't cause it to short out. :cowboy:

Good shooting! RT

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 05 June 2011

Wow thats a heck of a group and a HECK of a rifle !

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 05 June 2011

I'll see if I can't post the pics of my Austrian rifle . It is NOWHERE in the same class as yours but the only one I have at the moment !

Best thing i can say about mine is that it was made in 1929 and doesn't appear to have been shot much since it was right before the war . The gentleman I purchased it from told me his father was a one star in WWII and had picked this up as one of his war trophies . I also got a German single shot scoped rifle in 6.5x52R which is nothing more then a 25-35 and a drilling he picked up at the same time !

The man who sold me these said his father in law never fired them and neither did he . I've not shot the schuetzen or the drilling yet . But the little 25-35 did very nicely with some pre 1965 REM factory ammo I had on hand . If They're still on my laptop in the Gunsmith shop I'll post them as well !

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Standard Member

Michael Petrov posted this 05 June 2011

I'll look forward to seeing your schuetzen rifle, who was the maker?

There is a lot of loading information out there for the 8.15x46R and they seem to shoot well.

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 05 June 2011

Michael Petrov wrote: I'll look forward to seeing your schuetzen rifle, who was the maker?

There is a lot of loading information out there for the 8.15x46R and they seem to shoot well.

We actually have a pair of them here in my immediate shooting friends !

One of my budds picked up a nice one built on a Martini action . And then a year later I got the falling block I have . I had to have a peep sight made for mine and found and old sight I modified for the front . I should be able to get them posted tommorrow . Hopefully i still have pics of the Martini on my laptop in the shop !

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 05 June 2011

In post 21 you have your 33 cal Pope Ballard pictured . The trigger guard on that one . Is that whats referred to as the Pope triggerguard ?

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Standard Member

Michael Petrov posted this 06 June 2011

6pt-sika wrote: In post 21 you have your 33 cal Pope Ballard pictured . The trigger guard on that one . Is that whats referred to as the Pope triggerguard ?

You are correct, that's a Pope finger lever, Same style on the 33WP.

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CBA Member

nimrod posted this 06 June 2011

Wow those sure are some beautifull rifles and sure am glad to see that you are using then they were made to shoot and it looks like that they do that very well.

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 06 June 2011

Here's my falling block !

These pics were taken before I had the rear sight made and added an original front sight !

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 06 June 2011

The Collath 6.5x52R (actually a 25-35 WIN) this one came from the same fellow I got the schuetzen above !

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 06 June 2011

This drilling is chambered in 16 gauge , 16 gauge and 10.75x65R Collath . I'm not a big fan of hammer drillings but I bought this one mainly because I liked the engraving !

This also came from the same source as the two above !

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Standard Member

Michael Petrov posted this 06 June 2011

All nice guns, what is the word between the two stars on the falling block?

As you may or may not know “System Grothe” rifles are not very common.'

The Grothe was patented by Ed Grothe & Son Stendal, Germany.

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 06 June 2011

Michael Petrov wrote: All nice guns, what is the word between the two stars on the falling block?

As you may or may not know “System Grothe” rifles are not very common.'

The Grothe was patented by Ed Grothe & Son Stendal, Germany. Yes , I was on the forum most of the guys in the ASSRA use and asked questions about that rifle . And after showing them the pics one guy told me , he called a friend in Germany that claimed they didn't make to many under that name/system .

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 06 June 2011

Michael Petrov wrote: All nice guns, what is the word between the two stars on the falling block?

I was told that was the name of the barrel maker . By the same fellow that told me this rifle had some rarity . He also had me give him the marks from the underside of the barrel and was able to tell me that the gun had been put together in 1929 .

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Standard Member

Michael Petrov posted this 06 June 2011

I can't read the letters, can you tell what they are?

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CBA Member

Dale53 posted this 07 June 2011

Michael Petrov; That is a gorgeous rifle and a real shooter. I only have one Ballard, a modern Ballard “Frogmore” in .22 Rimfire.

6pt-Sika; Charlie Dell was a personal friend of mine and, in fact, I bought a brand new Peregrine action from him and he barreled it for me while I spent a week with him at his home and shop. It was a “gun nuts” dream.

Charlie's buddy (and mine) is Charlie Shaef (the Green Frog). In fact, Charlie will be here overnight on his way to and from Illinois in a couple of days. I held a single shot match at Friendship, In a number of years ago and Charlie Shaef came all the way from Va to shoot it. We hit it off like gangbusters and have been close friends ever since. In fact, he introduced me to Charlie Dell at The ASSRA Nationals at Etna Green.

Two finer men never lived. I am proud to have been able to call both among my friends.

Dale53

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 07 June 2011

Dale53 wrote: 6pt-Sika; Charlie's buddy (and mine) is Charlie Shaef (the Green Frog). In fact, Charlie will be here overnight on his way to and from Illinois in a couple of days. I held a single shot match at Friendship, In a number of years ago and Charlie Shaef came all the way from Va to shoot it. We hit it off like gangbusters and have been close friends ever since. In fact, he introduced me to Charlie Dell at The ASSRA Nationals at Etna Green.

Two finer men never lived. I am proud to have been able to call both among my friends.

Dale53

Dale , you gave me GreenFrog's phone number a couple years ago . And that was how I was able to converse with him !

The first time I became aware of this gentleman was when I read his article in the ASSRA mag about his Maynard rifle .

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CBA Member

codarnall posted this 07 June 2011

I don't no where I've been:

Checks this out, design your own molds.

http://www.mountainmolds.com/

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CBA Member

6pt-sika posted this 07 June 2011

codarnall wrote: I don't no where I've been:

Checks this out, design your own molds.

http://www.mountainmolds.com/>http://www.mountainmolds.com/

I had these folks make me a 433-375GC and a 433-400GC about two years ago !

I made the mold specs I wanted sent them to him along with payment and I had the molds in my hands 6 DAYS after I sent him the order . Not saying this will happen everyday . But it did when I ordered from him !

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Standard Member

Michael Petrov posted this 07 June 2011

Back to the range this AM trying different primers. Fired five 5-shot groups at 100 yards, smallest .550 largest at .895 for an average of .765".

Fired one ten-shot, then came home. Need to move out to 200-yards.

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CBA Member

codarnall posted this 07 June 2011

They have web based auto/cad type design tools to use on-line now it seems. I'll definitely slug my old 86's with their worn barrels and get hot on this trail.