Another PB Accurate Mold

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  • Last Post 14 August 2012
pat i. posted this 13 June 2012

Below is a new PB mold I had Tom at Accurate cut for me hoping I can finally get a plain base bullet to shoot in a fixed cartridge. I haven't had much in the way of luck with the two previous attempts I made with bullets sans gas check so decided to design my own with the hope of success. I plan on using this mold in a 30-06 Win Model 670. What I did was download a print of Tom's clone of the Saeco 315 and went at it with a Photoshop program I have. My print was a little rougher than Tom's cataloged print pictured below, 31-190B, but the design was there.

Using a chamber print I figured the 06 throat tapers .001 for every .020 in length, or thereabouts. Using that as my starting guide I made the .050 wide front band .303, dropped back .100 from the front of that band to the front of the next and drew that at .308 by .100 wide. I finished up with two .310 bands. One .070 wide and the base band at .100 wide. The grease grooves are all .050 to be able to use one or more if needed without flooding the thing with grease.

The bore ride section is drawn at .300 but in this gun I needed .301 or a bit more. Tom's tolerances are -.000,+.0015 on the body and +.000,-.0015 on the bore ride section. My experience has been that he runs close to the minimum on the bore ride section and right on on the the body so I ordered my mold “Body As Drawn, .3025 Bore Ride Section” and got a bore ride section at .301 and the rest right on the money.  

I don't plan on trying a lot of powders right off the bat and for the moment am sticking with Bluedot for the simple reason that I have a pound and a half of it and there's no reason it shouldn't work if everything else is right. P-wads seem like a good idea and I'm using Wilson dies and a single case for loading so my kit will be minimal. I have some ready to go with one lube groove filled with LBT Blue which should be more than enough lube. Alloy consists of water dropped WW. Some people might say that's too hard but I use water dropped WWs in my 32 S&W Long and don't have a problem. Will try the gun tomorrow morning and report back.

The whole purpose of this little project is to take a minimalist approach to shooting in the new Hunting Rifle Class while being competitive. I was a big advocate of this class and hopefully can get something together to show that you can get by with the bare minimum in equipment and work and use something you already have sitting in the cabinet. The gun is as sold with nothing at all done to it except adding a 36x Weaver scope and the equipment used to get the bullet ready is next to nothing. I'm using a lubesizer with an oversized die for lubing convenience but wouldn't have any trouble at all pan lubing. I'm also using a Lee push through die to size to .3095 but don't know if that's necessary or not considering the bullet casts at .310. I just like to size bullets for some reason and had a die laying there that sizes to .3095 when using water dropped WWs. Everything I need to shoot a match fits in a small tool box and either clamps or sits on the bench when shooting.

Print and bullet are below. 

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CB posted this 13 June 2012

Almost looks like an Eagan MX3 without a GC.. Let me know how it does, what weight are you geting out of the mold?

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pat i. posted this 13 June 2012

The bullet weighs 190 grains out of wheel weights hence the name 31-190B, although I don't know what the B stands for. Could you post a picture of the MX3 since I don't know what it looks like? I'll post the good bad and indifferent of how it does tomorrow sometime after I get home from the range.

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nimrod posted this 14 June 2012

Wow! I sure like the looks of that one. Will be watching to see how this one goes.

Richard

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CB posted this 14 June 2012

I have to go to the docs this morning, I think I have about 2000 of them cast up and will get a pic for you.

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John Alexander posted this 14 June 2012

Pat,

Nice looking bullet.

I like the concept of your project to come up with a method that can win in hunting rifle class with the minimum of investment and a minimum of loading operations.

That fits right in with our discussions about the concept and purpose of such a class seven or eight years ago when the it was only a gleam in our eyes.

Good luck with the new bullet.

I hope to be competing against that M-670 in September.

John

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pat i. posted this 14 June 2012

Took the gun and bullet out today for a trial run and the results are pictured below. Seven 5 shot groups and one ten, actually nine since I had that one go wild. While except for that one group these aren't earth shattering they are a vast improvement over what I was getting with the other bullets I tried. I haven't chronographed the load yet but imagine it's in the 1400s somewhere. I also don't know what the charge weighed but figure it's somewhere between 11 and 11 1/2 grs of BlueDot although I could be off here. Now that I know the thing has the potential to shoot I'll mark the cavities so I can segregate and index the bullets into the chamber along with playing around a bit more with the load. I'll also bring some flags and my chronograph to the range next time I go. Altogether I shot 50 rounds without cleaning or checking for leading so I'll get my borescope out first to have a look and then give it a good cleaning.

Still the hardest thing for me so far is finding a proper bench technique to control this beast. Jim Searcy had an excellent article in the last FS about working with a hunting class rifle and the part about working off the bench was great. For myself though I found instead of laying my thumb along the side of the stock I have to put light pressure with my thumb on top of the comb. My thumb, shoulder, and trigger finger are the only things I had touching he gun. I had to make doubly sure the pad of my hand wasn't touching the side of the stock or I had wild flyers. Once the scope lined up I lifted my head and looked along the side of the scope so there'd be no contact between my fat face and the stock also.  

Lots to learn and lots to try which is making this a fun and interesting project and while I'm always open to suggestions and conversation I'm going to be a bit abrupt with people who say “Why don't you just do this?". If what they say is all it takes to make a fixed case PB bullet shoot competitively in hunting rifle shoulder to shoulder matches, which have the distinct disadvantage of being measured and witnessed, why don't they do it themselves?

I'll add to this topic with more specific data and report on the results of segregating and indexing next time I get to the range.

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Pigslayer posted this 14 June 2012

pat i. wrote: Took the gun and bullet out today for a trial run and the results are pictured below. Seven 5 shot groups and one ten, actually nine since I had that one go wild. While except for that one group these aren't earth shattering they are a vast improvement over what I was getting with the other bullets I tried. I haven't chronographed the load yet but imagine it's in the 1400s somewhere. I also don't know what the charge weighed but figure it's somewhere between 11 and 11 1/2 grs of BlueDot although I could be off here. Now that I know the thing has the potential to shoot I'll mark the cavities so I can segregate and index the bullets into the chamber along with playing around a bit more with the load. I'll also bring some flags and my chronograph to the range next time I go. Altogether I shot 50 rounds without cleaning or checking for leading so I'll get my borescope out first to have a look and then give it a good cleaning.

Still the hardest thing for me so far is finding a proper bench technique to control this beast. Jim Searcy had an excellent article in the last FS about working with a hunting class rifle and the part about working off the bench was great. For myself though I found instead of laying my thumb along the side of the stock I have to put light pressure with my thumb on top of the comb. My thumb, shoulder, and trigger finger are the only things I had touching he gun. I had to make doubly sure the pad of my hand wasn't touching the side of the stock or I had wild flyers. Once the scope lined up I lifted my head and looked along the side of the scope so there'd be no contact between my fat face and the stock also.  

Lots to learn and lots to try which is making this a fun and interesting project and while I'm always open to suggestions and conversation I'm going to be a bit abrupt with people who say “Why don't you just do this?". If what they say is all it takes to make a fixed case PB bullet shoot competitively in hunting rifle shoulder to shoulder matches, which have the distinct disadvantage of being measured and witnessed, why don't they do it themselves?

I'll add to this topic with more specific data and report on the results of segregating and indexing next time I get to the range.

Here is my Accurate bullet for the 7.62 x 54R GC. I was having trouble in that it was all over the target at 50 yds. I was seating to the crimping groove & not to the lands. My bore is .313 & I sized to .315 & after seating to the lands, here are the results.

Pat Reynolds

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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Paul Pollard posted this 15 June 2012

Pat,

A couple questions:

  1. What are you using for wad material? How thick?

  2. How much neck tension are you using? Is it loose or tight?

I'd say that barrel is shot out! :wow:

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Pigslayer posted this 15 June 2012

Paul Pollard wrote: Pat,

A couple questions:

  1. What are you using for wad material? How thick?

  2. How much neck tension are you using? Is it loose or tight?

I'd say that barrel is shot out! :wow:

The 7.62x54R is a Mosin Nagant & it takes no wad. Neck tension: moderate. Barrel shot out . . . no. The 7.62x54R shoots incredibly well with 150 gr., .312 dia. jacketed. It's just been a chore in getting cast to work well but am finally having success. One has to keep in mind that the groove diameter of that rifle varied widely from .308 all the way to .316, depending on who manufactured it. This rifle was built in 1942 and Hitler was breathing down the Rutskies necks. Update: Sorry Paul, no worries. Though that you were talking to this Pat. My mistake.

Pat Reynolds

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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Paul Pollard posted this 15 June 2012

Pigslayer (Pat),

I didn't realize your name is Pat. Thanks for your reply, however, my comments were asked of Pat I. He would know about the “barrel is shot out” comment. We had a discussion about temperamental rifles; just when you think they're shooting well, they're not.

Paul

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Pigslayer posted this 15 June 2012

Paul Pollard wrote: Pigslayer (Pat),

I didn't realize your name is Pat. Thanks for your reply, however, my comments were asked of Pat I. He would know about the “barrel is shot out” comment. We had a discussion about temperamental rifles; just when you think they're shooting well, they're not.

Paul

My mistake. Sorry.

Pat Reynolds

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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pat i. posted this 15 June 2012

From the other Pat.......

Paul I'm using Neco P-Wads at the moment and I believe they're .060 thick. I have a Cornell wad making die but I bought it specifically to use in my 30x47 bench gun and it's got a tight neck so the wads just fall into this thing. If, and that's a big if, this little project comes along I'll look into picking up another Cornell since I have a lot of wad making material and it's a great tool. I'm running .002 neck tension at the moment but will try different buttons down the road. So many things to try, so little time.

You're right on the mark about the barrel being shot out. What surprised me is that it got completely shot out in only five rounds!! I'll have to check the throat and wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it now extends all the way to the muzzle. Not to worry though because I'm having my friendly custom mold maker fabricate a set of 23 and a third inch tall blocks so I'll be able to design a bullet to reach the lands in any situation. All I need to figure out now is what to attach to the forklift I just ordered to use as handles. 

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CB posted this 15 June 2012

Pat I have a 32-20 wad punch from cornell, I weould be happy to punch a few out for you to try..

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pat i. posted this 15 June 2012

Jeff I'd really appreciate that. When I was looking at the tools last night I was wondering if the .315 punch would work better than the 30. Definitely save me a headache by being able to try them before buying. Don't need many and thanks for the offer.

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CB posted this 15 June 2012

I get punched up and in the mail this weekend.

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pat i. posted this 19 June 2012

Found another picture from my last outing. Everything you need for a day at the range.

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CB posted this 19 June 2012

Where is the lunch box and cooler??

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pat i. posted this 19 June 2012

Jeff Bowles wrote: Where is the lunch box and cooler?? Both are in a little bar about 10 miles down the road. A man needs to unwind a bit after a tough day at the range. :)

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CB posted this 19 June 2012

Ah yes, either a beer and pizza...

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pat i. posted this 20 June 2012

Took the gun out for another go at getting it to shoot. I would have had better luck with a full auto AK47 shooting out of the back of a Toyota pickup going 60 mph down a gravel road. After driving the 50 miles home cussing out just about everything known to man I decided to clean up my equipment before going next door to kick the living crap out of that neighbor who stands on his porch and eyeballs me every time I'm cutting the grass at 6am on a Sunday morning, sissy must not understand that if you cut early you beat the heat and get the rest of the day to yourself. I only use one piece of brass for all my reloading in this thing and when I was wiping off the neck I noticed what I have pictured below. WTF!! Do things like this only happen to me?? I've driven the 50 miles to the range and when I went to get my bullets I remembered they were sitting on the counter at home. I spent a day fitting and chambering a barrel only to step on the only patch of ice within 100 yards sending me and the barrel sailing with the barrel landing right on the brand spanking new threads. In the heat of a match I picked up a bullet that dropped on the ground and loaded it into a brand new Shilen barrel making what used to be an 8 groove into a 9. And that's just the things that come to mind at the moment. Either I have terrible luck or I have to start paying attention to what's happening around me because this is getting to be a pain.  

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