Finally! I just went up to a local gunshop & ordered my new Handi-Rifle in .444 Marlin. I've been wanting to do that for about 3 months! Nothing like a new toy to play with! The scope mounts are on their way from Natchez and a new scope is in the box in my shop! Many bullets are cast for it with plenty of brass on hand. Lots of fun ahead!!
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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I'm sure I've mentioned this before , but I had one of those and shot a fair number of jacketed bullets in it with excellent results . I am also sorry to say that I sold it before I tried any cast .
I certainly see NO REASON that it shouldn't do wonderfully with cast . To be honest I'd especially like to have seen how the one I “had” would have done with my 375 and 400 grain molds !
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I have a handi in .444. the twist rate is faster than the handi's in .44Mag. It does ok. Haven't spent the time getting it to do MOA yet, but it might happen.
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"Lots of fun ahead..". You got that right. I had a .444 barrel fitted to my frame a couple years ago. I just wish it came with sights. So many possibilites with all the .44 molds out there. The Ranch Dog 265 gr. was designed for a Marlin .444. Works good in a H&R too. I even tried a .44 WC load, and plan on a round ball load too. You can make it a real pussycat or a full grown tiger. Even blackpowder loads. The H&Rs are the easiest gun to clean up. I knew a retired fed who used his .444 every year on bull elk. Said it knocked 'em flat. Lee makes a 310 gr. mold for a .44.
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If fellow had one of these H&R rifles in 444 they would be hard pressed to do better then getting a set of the Ranch Dog molds in 240 , 265 , 300 and possibly 350 grain !
As mister Turner says the 265 grainer is a darn good bullet . And with that being said there are no flies n the other three .
BRP made me a couple molds with the Ranch Dog nose and traditional lube grooves in 375 and 400 grains that have shot well for me although the 400 grainer needed to go in my 1-20 Ballard rifled gun .
Also had Mountain Molds cut me a 325 grainer again with the Ranch Dog nose and traditional lube grooves that has done quite nicely in one of my lever actions this past season !
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Congrats on your new toy. I now have 3 Handi Rifles. Now I'm looking for barrels in 30/30, 45/70 and of course the 444. With the strength of the Handi you are pretty much unlimited with your choices of loads at either end of the spectrum. Keep us posted on its performance.
Robert Homan
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Received my scope mounts today and am anxiously awaiting the arrival of my rifle. As a kid I started out with a single shot rifle. After years of deer hunting with five shot clips & never needing more than one bullet . . . I'm back to the single shot rifle! Life is full circle!
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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single shot rifles force one to stay focused on the most important shot THE FIRST ONE I like single shot rifles. Keep us posted on how it shoots. I bet you are gona like it. m
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Pigslayer, I hope you have better luck with your Handi Rifle than I had with the two I had. I bought a 44 Mag rifle to shoot cast in and the first thing I did was slug the barrel using a pure lead 429244 slug. It almost fell through the bore. I tried again but this time I tapped the slug first with a hammer to “bump it up” a little in size. After a trip down the bore it measured .434"......A second attempt yeilded the same result. That rifle would have needed a .435” bullet. I don't own a mold that will drop that big, nor can you buy a size die that large. I called the factory and spoke to a tech. He told me it was in spec. Do you know what he told me the factory tolerance is for Handi Rifles?.........431” plus or minus .003".....that's a .006” tolerance....for a bore. I promptly sold the rifle and bought a 45-70. It was no better so I sold it as well. I sincerly hope you are lucky enough to get a rifle that's in the middle of their tolerance range. I was not so lucky. No more Handi Rifles for me.
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Pigslayer,
I hope you have better luck with your Handi Rifle than I had with the two I had. I bought a 44 Mag rifle to shoot cast in and the first thing I did was slug the barrel using a pure lead 429244 slug. It almost fell through the bore. I tried again but this time I tapped the slug first with a hammer to “bump it up” a little in size. After a trip down the bore it measured .434"......A second attempt yeilded the same result. That rifle would have needed a .435” bullet. I don't own a mold that will drop that big, nor can you buy a size die that large. I called the factory and spoke to a tech. He told me it was in spec. Do you know what he told me the factory tolerance is for Handi Rifles?.........431” plus or minus .003".....that's a .006” tolerance....for a bore. I promptly sold the rifle and bought a 45-70. It was no better so I sold it as well. I sincerly hope you are lucky enough to get a rifle that's in the middle of their tolerance range. I was not so lucky. No more Handi Rifles for me.
highstandard40, I am sorry about your experience with the handi-rifle. I am in hopes that I fair better with it. But . . . As all of us know, cast bullets are a ” horse od a different color” and getting the right “fit” can be a harrowing & expensive experience. After getting cast bullets to shoot good in an oversize bore in a 7.62 x 54R Mosin Nagant, I am am prepared for the worst. Finally after two different custom molds I am shooting 1” three shot groups at fifty yards. I may yet have to design & have made yet another mold to get that kind of accuracy at 100 yds.. I do thank you for your post as it will make me better prepared for casting for this new rifle. I look at shooting cast bullets as a fun & challenging hobby vs. the near guaranteed accuracy of shooting jacketed bullets. I found out early on that shooting cast bullets in a rifle requires a lot of patience and at times can be draining financially as I, like many live paycheck to paycheck.
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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I'm wondering if the guy on the phone really knows what the barrel specs are for real. .006” doesn't sound realistic to me. Seems like you'd have to work at it to be that sloppy. My many H&R barrels are much better than that. There's something about the simplicity of these guns that attracts people. The opposite of the ar craze. My Super Light .223 with 20” barrel and open sights just begs to be a woods walkers cast bullet bunny gun but in a minute can have a buffalo cartridge barrel on it. They're a lot of fun for little money. You may not get MOA out of the box, but like cast bullets, there's the challenge. The H&Rs are a natural for the cb shooter who likes to experiment and tinker.
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the handi-rifle has to be one of the most ...make that ... WAS ...disrespected shootin-iron out there ....
hey, my neighbor kid shot a 9 point buck last fall ...with a handi-shotgun ...fully rifled ...at about 250 yards ...used one of those $3.00 sabot slugs ...
anyway, didn't someone propose a match for this rifle a while back ? how about a rerun on this idea ? it certainly was mentioned enough during the chat about bpc ...
i had a hr in 30-30, but shot big bean cans ...30-30, loaded midway bulk 0.314 lead pistol wadcutters in it .. a ball !!
here would be my proposed rules ... or lack of same ... ( g ) .
handi-rifle ( * )or equivalent, boxstock, any centerfire caliber ( or gauge !! ) plus any sights, any load, standing only but cross sticks allowed ... no ” straight jackets” , slings, etc ..
10 shots for score targets at 100 yards, 2 targets submitted, best of the 2 targets is ranked, 2nd target for tie breakers.
( * ) note : since this would be standing, the great leveler of equipment, i would be tempted to allow any non-schuetzen single shot centerfire rifle ...such as ruger 1 ... discussion welcome .. )
any interest ?
ken
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handi-rifle or equivalent- would that mean my Savage 219 30-30 would qualify?
Cross stix--kind of long if for standing, sitting or prone? How about limited to break open single shots?
Yea, I would be interested
RD
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handi-rifle or equivalent- would that mean my
Savage 219 30-30 would qualify?
Cross stix--kind of long if for standing, sitting or prone? How about limited to break open single shots?
Yea, I would be interested
RD
That would make it open to Encore's and Contenders then . As much as I don't really care for the TC products many of those I've had my hands on shot amazingly well .
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in this case, ” single shot ” might be close to ” no bolt actions ” ( g ) .
sliding blocks, break open ok. the main idea is that the standing position is a great equalizer to hold down the equipment race.
i played with this scheme a bit ...with a 2-3 moa leadslinger , about the best i can shoot is around 6 moa from standing, no sticks ... humbling, heh ? i also found that 10 shots is a nerve-frazzler .. i am thinking a 1 hr time ...to let the anxiety burn off ...
ken
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in this case, ” single shot ” might be close to ” no bolt actions ” ( g ) .
sliding blocks, break open ok. the main idea is that the standing position is a great equalizer to hold down the equipment race.
i played with this scheme a bit ...with a 2-3 moa leadslinger , about the best i can shoot is around 6 moa from standing, no sticks ... humbling, heh ? i also found that 10 shots is a nerve-frazzler .. i am thinking a 1 hr time ...to let the anxiety burn off ...
ken
I am thinking from the bench 5 shot groups in 10-15 minutes .
You shoot offhand and 10 shot groups all you want I on the other hand see no need for it .
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in this case, ” single shot ” might be close to ” no bolt actions ” ( g ) .
sliding blocks, break open ok. the main idea is that the standing position is a great equalizer to hold down the equipment race.
i played with this scheme a bit ...with a 2-3 moa leadslinger , about the best i can shoot is around 6 moa from standing, no sticks ... humbling, heh ? i also found that 10 shots is a nerve-frazzler .. i am thinking a 1 hr time ...to let the anxiety burn off ...
ken
Yea, what he said! I am thinking from the bench 5 shot groups in 10-15 minutes .
You shoot offhand and 10 shot groups all you want I on the other hand see no need for it .;}
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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One of the dumbest things I've ever done was sell my 219 30-30. DUMB! I thought all guns were that much fun to shoot. Off hand is like parallel parking. You won't get good if you don't do it.
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Yea,that 219 30-30 was the first one that I'd ever seen. pretty nice shape so didn't let it pass by. I wasn't expecting much in the way of a group at 50 yds. But after turning down the noses on the RCBS 30-180-SP a little to make them fit and some IMR 4227, I was even more surprised. Five shots snuggled up right next to each other using the original sights.
RD
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Yea,that 219 30-30 was the first one that I'd ever seen. pretty nice shape so didn't let it pass by. I wasn't expecting much in the way of a group at 50 yds. But after turning down the noses on the RCBS 30-180-SP a little to make them fit and some IMR 4227, I was even more surprised. Five shots snuggled up right next to each other using the original sights.
RD That 30-30 sounds like a fun caliber. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Picked up my new Handi-Rifle about a half hour ago. Being that it is a .444 Marlin, I 'm prepared to follow Onandaga's lead & fill the hollow cavity of the stock with a lead sleeve if the recoil is too much as the rifle is fairly light.
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Picked up my new Handi-Rifle about a half hour ago. Being that it is a .444 Marlin, I 'm prepared to follow Onandaga's lead & fill
the hollow cavity of the stock with a lead sleeve if the recoil is too much as the rifle is fairly light.
Pat
Personally I wouldn't worry about that .
The one I had with full house jacketed bullet loads was not bad at all .
My suggestion would be try it awhile and if you find it that bad then fill the cavity with shot or whatever . But honestly I don't think you'll find it that bad unless you start shooting anti aircraft loads thru it !
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This thread has me thinking I want another Handi in 444 so I can try all the Ranch Dog bullets and those hybrids I had made from his original design .
And it just so happens I have a Leupold 4-12 back in the safe at home looking for a place to land for awhile .
I've lately seen the 444 Handi in 3 variations . The old style with the hardwood stock . the synthetic and a camo synthetic .
Think once I get back stateside I might see if we can find one of the camo jobs from our wholesalers !
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"Aside from the fact that a properly directed .444 will deck a deer or black bear like lightning, and perform tolerably on elk,... the thing about it that impresses me most is it's accuracy.” Clay Harvey ---Ken Waters has also given the .444 high praise, calling it “the most accurate big bore lever-action rifle” he's ever shot. I have a 45-70 and a .444 H&R, they are both a ton of fun. When I feel the need for a magazine fed gun I take my Marlin 336 .35 Remington loaded with home made Ranch Dog or LBT bullets. Gotta love those big bores.
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"Aside from the fact that a properly directed .444 will deck a deer or black bear like lightning, and perform tolerably on elk,... the thing about it that impresses me most is it's accuracy.” Clay Harvey ---Ken Waters has also given the .444 high praise, calling it “the most accurate big bore lever-action rifle” he's ever shot. I have a 45-70 and a .444 H&R, they are both a ton of fun. When I feel the need for a magazine fed gun I take my Marlin 336 .35 Remington loaded with home made Ranch Dog or LBT bullets. Gotta love those big bores.
I'm down to 444's only now in the leveraction way of life !
Sold off my last 45-70 as well as the 44 MAG . I still have the stuff to load and cast for them both but I may try and stay uhm “focused” for a change LOL's !
I expect if I bite the bullet and buy a Handi in 444 it may very well get a second barrel for 45-70 . I mean what the heck I have six really good molds for the 45-70 so why not use them ;)
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As is the case with lever & breakopen rifles (from what I've read) there is little or no throat at all as the rifling stops abruptly. I found that true with my Handi-Rifle. After loading a few of the LEE 310 gr. I decided to try one in the chamber. It went fine right up until the last .1 of an inch, then it had to be forced. Not a lot of force but it had to be forced. Could I seat the bullets deeper by .1” . . . yes but that would negate the crimping groove. Do I need a crimping groove in a single shot rifle . . . Noooooo. Do I like having one . . . yes. Why? It serves as a good reference point in seating my bullet & also holds lube. Had I simply seated the bullet deeper I would have had to roll the case mouth over the radius of the bullet or . . . Not. Either way I would have a real funny looking bullet. I like bullets that are as near to being aesthetically pleasing as well as accurate. I opted for designing and ordering a custom mold from Mountain Molds. Upon slugging my bore, I found it to be rather large comparatively speaking with a groove diameter of .431 and a land diameter of .424 - .425. I ordered, as MM suggested, a mold with a .1” wide band that will be a bore riding section @ .425". This band as MM describes is to facilitate the alignment of the bullet which will be needed as there is no throat. The as cast diameter of the bullet will be .433. I ordered the .433 knowing that the mold will come at about .002” over. The bore riding band will be nominal. As previously mentioned there are no absolutes in cast bullet shooting. It can get pricey! I was premature in loading up some 310 gr.. gc bullets sized at .431 prior to receiving my new rifle . . . Doooooooh!!!!! After slugging the bore & finding the groove diameter at .431.I just figured that I'd pull the bullets but changed my mind. They will probably be all over the target but what the heck. Being that they are gas checked they might do alright . . . Maybe.
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Just finished mounting my scope on my Handi-Rifle The rifle came with a scope mount base but be advised, the base is not installed by the factory for permanent use. First, the screws are not tight, 2nd they of course have oil on them & third the tapped holes in the barrel have burrs on them that would interfere with solid seating of the base. I took a flat mini file & carefully removed the burrs prior to mounting the base. I cleaned all the parts & threads with brake cleaner before mounting. Then, of course, used blue locktite on the threads. Purple will work as well but red is taboo.
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Pat, Hope your bullets get shooting well for you. I finally got a bullet long enough that I could seat it out to engage the lands on my Handi in .500 &W Mag . The Lee 440 gr FNGC seats way out there and engages the lands for me. I don't crimp these. I flair case mouths .005” to seat bullets then I have a separate seating die in a separate step after seating the bullet to utilize the roll crimp feature to just close the flaired case mouth to neutral. I sure wish Lee made a FCD in this caliber. Because they don't I really have to keep my brass precisely trimmed for the consistency I get using an additional seating die to close the flair.
Gary
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gary ...a while back i posted about me using a cheap 5c collet holder from harbor freight, and getting ... relatively ... cheap 5c collets from ebay ...you might want the soft steel or brass ( E stamped ) to make just what you want. standard collets are very hard, need to be ground to modify.
you can do all kinds of tricks with such a rig ...including neck and collet crimping...
you can also taper ream the collet for advanced tricks.
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After some though I decided to pull the loaded undersized bullets. I received my new mold from Mountain Molds and as usual, very well made. The bore ride section of .425” fits so close that I thought I could hear the air escape when sliding it in the bore. When ordering from MM, as instructed, I order my bullet diameter in the “sized” diameter that I need as it will come .002” larger and can be sized down. Bore ride dimensions will always be nominal. Hoping to hit the range tomorrow!!!!
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Greetings from the Great White North. I bought a Buffalo Classic and an Ultra Varmint last fall. We had a cold snowy winter so I haven't been able to play with them much until this past week as we are finally starting to thaw out. I LOVE these simple well made rifles. Absolutely perfect barrels and tight chambers. The Ultra Varmint is a tack driver with my standard 223 load of 55 grain bullet and 21 grains of IMR 4198. It shoots gas checked cast bullets pretty good and with a little bit of fiddling with powder and seating depth she will be a winner I think. The Buffalo Classic shoots 405 and 500 grain Lymans really well but the recoil is more than I want for casual plinking so I have been working with a Lee 340 grainer that casts at exactly .457 as it is supposed to. Serious leading and no accuracy at all. So I lapped the mould out to .461 and run them through my old Lyman 450 to .459. Shoots great now and no leading. The Lyman moulds throw .459 as cast so I just Alox them and away we go. I can honestly say that I bet you going to love your new Handi Rifle. I'm going to get an Ultra Hunter in .308 as well. Happy shooting. Be safe.
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I just filled my Buffalo Classic with a bunch of old mixed up shot and it helps. Remove the forend and carefully fit the hole to the stud after de-burring the stud and put a rubber O ring around the stud. Check that the wood floats freely and put her back together. That's it. I like a heavy trigger as it slows down my breathing at the bench so I left it alone. Breaks like a piece of glass. Well made rifles that shoot very well indeed.
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The Ultra Varmint is a tack driver with my standard 223 load of 55 grain bullet and 21 grains of IMR 4198.
I am thinking I need the NEF Varmint in 204 Ruger for my wife once she arrives here .
That'll be her starter rifle and after she can handle that from the bench I am thinking I wanna get her a 7mm-08 . Sorry no cast bullets in either of these for her ,
It's my intention to eventually get her outfitted with a Savage 220 left hand 20 gauge rifled bolt action , the Handi in 7mm-08 and a 45 caliber inline muzzle loader so she can go with me where ever I hunt for deer if she wishes .
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Just got back from the range & the new bullet shot incredibly well. At 25 yds I was cutting bullet holes & at 50 yds. I was shooting 1” groups. After about 15 rounds everything started opening up . . . badly. I checked for leading & found none. In fact the bore was absolutely shiney clean. After some inspection I found that the mounting screw on the rear scope ring was a little loose. I could turn it by hand even though it had had blue Loctite on it. Onandaga had warned me about the recoil on these big straight wall cartridges being different than usual. I put more Loctite on that mount screw & torqued it down. All the other screws were tight. The issue may not be the mount at all. It may be the Bushnell Trophy scope. We'll try it again tomorrow. At least I know this . . . The 300 gr. Mountain Mold bullet is deadly accurate in that rifle. When I started out cutting bullet holes at 25 yds. I said, “Oh my lord!” Then at 50 yds they were in a 1” circle I was elated. Then of course was dismayed when the shots opened up. I'll get to the root of the problem. The recoil is substantial but no more than my .270 Winchester with full power jacketed. I'm loading 37 grains of 4198 & even though I found that to be a starting load, I may cut it back to 35 grs..
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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At least I know this . . . The 300 gr. Mountain Mold bullet is deadly accurate in that rifle. When I started out cutting bullet holes at 25 yds. I said, “Oh my lord!” Then at 50 yds they were in a 1” circle I was elated.
In my always biased opinion I would say that gun oughtta be able to keep three in 3/4-1” at 100 yards once you work the demons out !
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Glad you got it shooting Pat. That load kicks about like a 12 ga slug gun, doesn't it? Weight the stock as I mentioned, that will make it easier on your scope/mount also.
Gary
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I put new Loctite on the rear ring mount screw & tightened it down pretty good. It really didn't seem to be real loose but broke free easily when I applied pressure & the scope didn't seem to have any movement upon close examination. Upon cleaning I found several pieces of lead on the patches. I have since cut my load by 2 grs. 4198. But what surprised me was the dark brown crap that loaded up on my patches! What can that be? How about LEE liquid Alox! I really don't like the stuff but since I was using the LEE sizer, I decided to tumble lube using that stuff. Lube problem? I'll pan lube the next batch with my home made lube. I have three patches sitting here loaded with that stuff! No more of that. I'm headed back out to the range in a few minutes. I'm really thinking that my problem was due to a fouled barrel even though it looked shiny upon looking down it. Now that I've cleaned it, I guess it wasn't so shiny. I'm taking my cleaning kit along. I'm going to scrub the barrel after every so many shots. We'll see.
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Pat, that is just 4198. carbon on the patches. If your charge leaves enough room for BPI filler and the charge is compressed 105% with BPI, the carbon will go way down.
A larger diameter bullet will help if it will fit, 4198 likes pressure. Some shooters claim less carbon from 5744, RX7 or IMR3031.
4895 would be worse, but compression with BPI fixes that too. The black means unburned carbon that didn't have enough pressure to consume the carbon. This is common in big bores unless you are shooting MAX/compressed loads. I don't believe the lube has anything to do with it.
Gary
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Pat, that is just 4198. carbon on the patches. If your charge leaves enough room for BPI filler and the charge is compressed 105% with BPI, the carbon will go way down.
A larger diameter bullet will help if it will fit, 4198 likes pressure. Some shooters claim less carbon from 5744, RX7 or IMR3031.
4895 would be worse, but compression with BPI fixes that too. The black means unburned carbon that didn't have enough pressure to consume the carbon. This is common in big bores unless you are shooting MAX/compressed loads. I don't believe the lube has anything to do with it.
Gary
Gary, The color in the picture is not true. The patches are actually dark brown in color. Went back out to the range & as long as I scrubbed the bore every few shots I got groups consistently at around 1 1/2"At 50 yds.. I'm going to increase the diameter to .434 In that there is some ( very little ) leading. I would like to know more about the use of Dacron filler in this scenario. I am not at all displeased with my results thus far as the deer, bear or moose at that range with the accuracy I'm getting would be in a very bad way. Now that I've got it shooting fairly well . . . It is playtime! I may try some 5744 as I have a pound on hand although I'd like to save that for my 7.62 x 54R. I'm actually quite pleased with the results so far. To get these results this quick ain't too bad!
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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For a 300 grain bullet I would suggest starting at about 44 grains of H322 and maxing out at 48 or 49 grains .
With XMP5744 I would suggest starting at 30 grains and topping out at about 36 grains .
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Pat, when i started loading 45-70 i used dacron really polly filler for making quilts. it was all i could find. later i read where folks were using 1/4 sheet of toilet paper. here i changed what i was doing and have had good results. I take one square of single ply tp and fold it in half cut it and then cut the length into five equal picecs then i have ten pieces. i now use 1/10th sheet tp by placing one of the strips over the case and pushing it down to the powder. when the bullet is seated it gives a acordian effect and holds the powder against the primer. I have carried this over to 38-55 with good results. I use a 38-55 case to seat the tp in the 45-70 and a unsharpened pencil for the 38-55. I am using IMR-4198. this may not answer you dacron question but may be something you want to consider. good luck. m
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Pat, I've used 4 different types of filler in my big bore, BPI, PRPSB, COW,and Dacron. the Dacron is the least expensive and easy to use:
http://www.precisionreloading.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PRE&Product_Code=PRPSB22&Category_Code=BUFFER>http://www.precisionreloading.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&StoreCode=PRE&ProductCode=PRPSB22&CategoryCode=BUFFER PRPSB is not very compressible like BPI so it has to be measured more carefully but it fills the space and cleans bores great. it is a spherical particulate plastic filler and BPI is compressible flakes.
Didn't you get a Hoppe's BoreSnake for the .444 yet? I take 1 pull through every 5 shots with my .458. NOTE: If you haven't polished that bore with a BoreSnake and Turtle Wax Chrome Polish and Rust Remover per my posted method yet, your .444 will shoot cleaner and tighter groups too when you do!
Gary
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Gary, Thank you so much for the info. It is greatly appreciated! No, I didn't get my bore snake yet but am working on it. Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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RE the cleaning patches in post #37, I get that with LLA in anything I use it in. Going with the 45/45/10 mix and using way less lube takes care of that. It's surprising to me how little it really takes. I'm glad you're having fun with your .444. Very interesting cartridge I think.
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RE the cleaning patches in post #37, I get that with LLA in anything I use it in. Going with the 45/45/10 mix and using way less lube takes care of that. It's surprising to me how little it really takes. I'm glad you're having fun with your .444. Very interesting cartridge I think.
Yea, it's turning out to be a fun endeavor. I'm really enjoying it. That big old 300 grainier rolling along at 1700 fps is pretty cool. Not exactly a “flat shooting bullet” to say the least. I loaded up some tonight with exactly 1 grain polyester filler and 35 grs. IMR4198. I pan lubed these bullets with my home made lube. My home made lube works well as I use it in my 7.62 x 54R without a hitch. It consists of 1 1/2 lb. beeswax, 1 lb. Vaseline, 5% carnauba flakes & 5% Ivory Soap (stearate). It's not real soft like the SPG lube & not real hard either. In the winter I have to heat the sizer a little when not pan lubing.
Pat:dance
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Finally got around to honing out my LEE push thru to .434. I have found that .444 Handi is shooting the best with 35 grains H4198, 1 grain polyester filler and my homemade lube. I've now gone from .431 to .434. It gets a little better each time. I'm hoping with the bullets at .434 it will be optimum. Patience is a virtue as they say & I take it one step at a time. I am also wondering whether I should be using a slightly softer alloy rather than Lyman 2? Any info concerning the BHN would be welcome. Thanks, Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Pat:
If your bullet is plain based, then the recommendations from Lee's 2nd edition Modern Reloading will make a good recommendation based on Ballistic pressure of your load in psi . Their chart will tell you what BHN will put your load in their defined sweet spot for your working load pressure.
Sometimes it is difficult to locate info on your load pressure in psi but my conversion formula is within practical limit for this function if you can locate CUP for your load and convert it to psi, the results will be within 3000 units.
ANSI CUP to ANSI psi: (CUP X 1.515586) - 17902 = psi within 3000 units
Lee equates alloy ultimate strength of your alloy in psi minus their sweet factor to the ballistic pressure of your load in psi to keep your alloy in the range a plain base alloy bullet will obturate reliably at your load pressure by recommending an alloy BHN for your load pressure.
If you know the approximate pressure of your load in psi, and don't have the book, post your pressure and I will look up the recommended alloy BHN for you. That info will also be in the chart with the Lee Hardness test kit if you have that. The Lee site also has available the instructions for their hardness test kit and you could find the chart there for working load pressure to alloy BHN recommendation there too.
Of course, if your bullet is gas checked, that will extend the load pressure range for your alloy to an amount to be determined by you. Lee's data is only suitable for plain based bullets and gas checks extend that range considerably.
Gary
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Consider cutting a 3/4 x 3/4” square of paper towel. Insert by grabbing with tweezers/hemostats/pliers in the middle and inserting into case - leaving 1/10” space above powder. IT BURNS CLEAN! (I use it in my .405 Winchester.)
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Found that with the harder Carnuba Red lube that my groups are no longer falling off after 10-15 shots and my groups seem tighter at 50 yds.. As long as I do “my part” I'm getting 1” groups
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Pat:
Sometimes it is difficult to locate info on your load pressure in psi but my conversion formula is within practical limit for this function if you can locate CUP for your load and convert it to psi, the results will be within 3000 units.
ANSI CUP to ANSI psi: (CUP X 1.515586) - 17902 = psi within 3000 units
Gary
The source of this formula is: http://www.steyrscout.org/intballi.htm "New statistical data analysis suggests that for most cartridges ANSI/SAAMI Maximum Average Piezo (PSI) and Maximum Average copper crusher (CUP) taken in a “standard” barrel can be related by the following formula which has an R^2 value (a statistical measurement of certainty) of .927. (1.51586 * CUP) - 17902.0 = PSI While the relationship is generally within Ksi (it assumes that the CUP was determined using ANSI/ SAAMI standards) one should not rely on this conversion for absolute maximum loads.” It appears that the formula is based on The Lyman 47th Handbook table, pg. 93, shows both CUP and psi pressures for a set of cartridges. This table was developed by the Hercules Powder Co. I applied the formula to the CUP pressures in the Lyman table and the formula worked pretty well. The formula produced results between 87%,(-3.5Ksi) and 110%, (+6Ksi) of the table values. Regression analysis of the table data yielded (1.513 * CUP) -17920; suggesting strongly that both formulas came from the same data. Basing the relationship between CUP and PSI on a sample of 25 tests made under unknown conditions is sorta risky; and I would advise caution.
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jeff houck
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Aaron
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Wilderness
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Tom Acheson
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John Carlson
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sghart3578
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Spindrift
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alphabrass
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SkinnerD
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MP1886
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