i have waited years for somebody to report adding gas checks to their breech seated bullets ... just to see if groups are better .... has anybody tried this ? especially at 1800 fps and above .
i remain confused about gas checks ... how come paper patch ...and now powder coat .... might do the same thing ?? ...breech seated powder coats ?? ...
oh my ...
ken
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i have waited years for somebody to report adding gas checks to their breech seated bullets
Ken, my friend .... you are SOMEBODY. <insert lol emoticon>
I agree that the function of gas checks is a bit of a mystery. If we ever get these cast bullets completely figured out we'll become bored and be forced to take up golf.
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Not me no problem ever! I will never figure these cast bullets out no danger of that! But if someone did put gas checks on a plain base bullet to breech seat and want to use it in competition I would think that a whole bunch of rules would have to be changed? The only real advantage that I can think of off the top of my head would be that you could increase the speed somewhat?
RB
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Just moving the thread back to the latest.
David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
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This is what I have read. Dr. Hudson, a renowned single--shot shooter, experimented with gascheck and was promoting their usage in Schuetzen before WW1. However, WW1 interfered with the shooting sports. After the war, there was a decline in the Schuetzen sport except for isolated areas such as Davenport, Iowa Gas checks were used on military rifles such as the Lyman 311284 with the .30 US Army (Krag) or the .30-'06 Springfield..
With the birth of the ASSRA after WWII, the choice was plain-base because that was what was in the literature and in people's memory. The soft lead bullet and breech-seating are the modus operandi with a single-shot rifle. The plain-base class in CBA and the ASSRA / ISSAS matches have a dedicated following and are fun. I do this because I enjoy the challenge and the sport.
I am not against experimentation, but I am also stuck on tradition. One is beginning to see bolt action rifles used in the Plain-Base class with a breech-seater looking like an oversized bolt. I suppose these could be used to seat a gas-checked bullet into the rifling for experimentation. And there would be no reason they could not compete in any class except plain-base.
As to the function of hte gas check; it is there to clean the bore and have consistent bore condition from shot to shot. If you recover a bullet in an oiled sawdust box and examine it, you will find a thin ring of lead on the leading edge of the gas check. This is where the sharp copper edge scraped the bore clean of lead deposits asit went down the bore.
Ed Doonan and I shot many bullets into an oiled sawdust filled recovery box in an attempt to answer this question. The same bore condition from shot-to-shot is a factor in accuracy. We adjusted velocity, lube amount and shot several rifle barrels with a range from new to worn-out in this search. All the gas checks showed at least a little lead on hte leading edge and helped formulate this theory.
Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest
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Another plus I see to a gascheck is that it makes the base a bit more uniform. Even though we can cast and cut almost a perfect sprew, it is never perfect. This is why we see a lot of the big bore BPCR style molds that are nose pour.
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Ken- I have been breech seating gas checked bullets from modified Lee molds for a number of years and have had good success. The bullet I am currently shooting is from a Lee 200 grain mold that has been lapped to give a nose of .302-.304 using 20 to 1 alloy. The driving bands do not allow the bullet to be seated ahead of the case, but accuracy is consistently in the 0.75 inch range at 100 yds. At the end of last summer, groups of 0.5 inches or less were not uncommon. The cartridge is a 300 Whispr Improved and the load is 9 grains of AA#9 for around 1240 fps. Since the mold has been lapped, the bullet weight with gas check is around 212 grains which helps it a 200 yds were on a calm day groups are in the 2 inch range, best being around 1.25 inch. My goal now is to get a plain based bullet to shoot as well. Cove
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thanks mr. cove .....great results !!
just to be clear ... are you breech seating in the old meaning of seating the bullets separately in the throat, then the brass with powder charge ?
even better your results with the whisper ... most other reports with cast bullets are generally not that good. .....another vote for the case not being so important as the chambering job y barrel quality... , bullet fit .... and the SHOOTER ! congrats.
ken
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I shot a lot of GC, BSed loads, around 1990. CBA opened a new class around then that allowed it. I shot a resized 323471 in my 15 twist, Douglas barreled, 32/40 HW. My best grouping was with 32 gr of 2520 @ about 2150 fps, into a .43 group @ 100 yd. It had a fair amount or recoil, even in my 14.5 lb rifle. If BSing lino GC bullets is your goal, you'll need a long freebore of at least .220 to get them in the throat w/o deforming the bullet. I was using #2 with a .120 freebore. Molds were very limited at that time. I did have a custom mold made by Stan D. But it wasn't as accurate as the 471. For GC, BS, THE Unr & Unp allow it but, I don't know of anyone that's doing it. Frank
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Ken - In answer to your question as to how I breech seat in my 300 Whispr Improved, the bullet is seated using a plugged case and then the charged case is inserted in the traditional manner. My only problem is the driving bands do not allow the bullet to be seated ahead of the case as recommended and the seated bullet extends about 0.2 inch into the case neck. This less than ideal situation however does not appear to be a problem since accuracy is good. Could accuracy be better? I have tried bullets from a custom mold that seat ahead of the case and they tend to shoot into groups in the 1 inch range. I am in the process writing an article describing my experiences with the 300 Whispr Imp and if I can get it written in a concise readable form, it should show up in FS. Hope this is of help to you - Cove
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This is a breech seater that I made for a long neck, 300 Savage (308 length). It was a 24", Rem 722, Ebay barrel that I mounted on my 40X.
The anchor for the lever, I machined and mounted on the two left side screws, at the back of the action, where a rear sight would mount.
The body of the BSer is 1/2” steel. I machined a case size end on one end and threaded the other end 1/2x20. But, the only thing you really need is clearence for the case, back of the neck and a neck with a close fit.
The brass rod is just a piece of 5/16, threaded 5/16x24, with a lock nut, to adjust for seating depth. The acorn nut, is just to push against.
Frank
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thanks guys ....
frank : fwiw i have an original 722 in 300 savage ... totally obsolete now, of course ... hah ...
ken
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thanks guys ....
frank : fwiw i have an original 722 in 300 savage ... totally obsolete now, of course ... hah ...
ken
Ken, I just ran a neck and throat reamer into my chamber so that I didn't have to trim cases. Plus, I've always liked the 30 degree shoulder that the 300 has. It makes for a excellent cartridge and all you have to do, is run the 308 brass through a FL sizer (trim if needed) and load it.
Frank
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wimilkman
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Tom Acheson
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pat i.
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Aaron
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BRatigan
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MarkinEllensburg
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Ed Harris
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porthos
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mashburn
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Pigslayer
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