Building a rifle specifically for cast.

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  • Last Post 24 February 2017
SierraHunter posted this 10 February 2017

So..I've got two actions sitting around. The first is a Interarms MK5, which I plan on building into either a 6.5/06 Ackley, or a 280 Ackley. The second, is a Turkish 98, with small ring threads. I kind of want to build this one into a rifle specifically for cast bullets. I want to stick with the 06 case head. I'm thinking something along the lines of a 308 case with the shoulder pushed back to give it the same length neck as the 06, and then blown out to straight with a Ackley shoulder. Put in a semi heavy 3 groove 24” barrel.

What would you guys build? It's gonna be While before I have funds to put anything together.

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onondaga posted this 10 February 2017

I'd go 30-06 Springfield just because you are considering the 280A.   In cast world they are so close,  I'd go 30 caliber where the most wonderful selection of bullet molds is. If I can do 1.2” @ 100 yd with a 1942  Rem. Barrel 1903A3 Springfield you can do better with a build. The Lee 303 Brit bullet is nice enough to build a rifle around in 30-06 with a standard chamber..

 

Gary

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 10 February 2017

if you like the longer necks, consider something on a 250-3000 / 22 varminter  case ..... about 37-44 grains powder max .... there are already such cartridges, probably somebody has chamber reamers ready to go .

how about a  6mm-250 .... because that is what i am thinking about ... ( g ) . joeb has shown that case to do well .

also there are lots of benchrest 14 twist match grade take-offs out there ... i have 4 or 9 of them myself .... even if needing setback, they just get smoother and better ...

just some thoughts ..

ken

 

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Scearcy posted this 10 February 2017

A 3006, 308 or 30BR are all good choices. Twist rate and throating will be important considerations.  As for me, I am with Ken.  I have been thinking my next cast bullet rifle will be some variation of the 6mm/250.  I will probably not go with a slow twist take off barrel though (unless Ken can persuade me otherwise).  I have a 105 gr 6MM mold that will likely require a 1/8 I would think.

great stuff to dream about until the grass turns green

Jim

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John Alexander posted this 10 February 2017

If you don't ever intend to shoot in CBA competition including postal matches ignore the rest of this message. But if you think you might like to try CBA competition you should  look at the CBA rules. A built up rifle will put you into the Heavy or the Unrestricted class. There is no weight limit on UNR and the weight limit is 14 pounds with scope for heavy.  Unless you want to shoot with the disadvantage of a harder to shoot lighter rifle and be pounded accordingly it should weigh 13 pounds plus.

John

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SierraHunter posted this 10 February 2017

I'm kind of wanting to go 30 caliber. I've got a 308 and a 06, so kind of wanting a oddball. Plus I like oddballs.

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giorgio the slim one posted this 10 February 2017

And what about  the old 30-30 alias 30 WCF ?  You would have only to work on the bolt face, and life would be easier  with chambering reamers & brass .

I have  a 30 -30 Contender carbine amd a Chiappa little Sharps , they do not have the  bullet shape limitations of the lever action carbines . Wonderful toys  for old shooters .

 

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SierraHunter posted this 10 February 2017

If you don't ever intend to shoot in CBA competition including postal matches ignore the rest of this message. But if you think you might like to try CBA competition you should  look at the CBA rules. A built up rifle will put you into the Heavy or the Unrestricted class. There is no weight limit on UNR and the weight limit is 14 pounds with scope for heavy.  Unless you want to shoot with the disadvantage of a harder to shoot lighter rifle and be pounded accordingly it should weigh 13 pounds plus.

John

14 pounds! I would like to shoot CBA matches with it, but still want to be able to pack the thing around if I choose to hunt with it.

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SierraHunter posted this 10 February 2017

And what about  the old 30-30 alias 30 WCF ?  You would have only to work on the bolt face, and life would be easier  with chambering reamers & brass .

I have  a 30 -30 Contender carbine amd a Chiappa little Sharps , they do not have the  bullet shape limitations of the lever action carbines . Wonderful toys  for old shooters .

 

It's a option, but getting it to feed might be tricky.

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rhbrink posted this 10 February 2017

Since you are building it up anyway that will put at least in the Heavy Class with a 14# limit why not make it a switch barrel could go with a nut like the Savage but not really necessary. I know several bench shooters at my club switch barrels all the time one guy comes to the range with at least five barrels one is windy day barrel, one a hot day barrel, one a cold day barrel and who knows what the others are for? 30 BR and never look back!

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SierraHunter posted this 11 February 2017

30 BR is interesting, but I would like to see a cartridge with just a bit longer neck.

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tomon posted this 11 February 2017

I'm shooting Cast with one 30WCF, and one 30-30 win!  I have a Winchester 54 with Palma Aperture sights, and a Remington 788 with a Tasco World class 36X Japanese scope.  The Winchester can take a 314299 seated against the lands and the base right at the shoulder/neck junction.  Same load won't even chamber in the Rem.

All the 30 cal boolit options, using a lot less powder.........What's not to like???

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delmarskid posted this 11 February 2017

I have a 30BR and I rarely shoot it because the case is a nuisance. I like your idea of the long necked 308 and have considered it myself. A 308 chamber could have the neck lengthened with a second straight reamer pretty easily I'm guessing. The same thing could be done with the 30BR for that matter.

 

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SierraHunter posted this 11 February 2017

Well, I'm wanting to push the shoulder back on the 308 case to extend the neck, since 308 cases are plentiful. If we simply extended the 308 neck, we would have to make cases from x57 or 06 cases.

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OU812 posted this 12 February 2017

Build it to shoot both cast and jacketed. Nothing wrong with a good bore riding bullet.

Why such an odd ball caliber? Long neck is not needed. Find you a good bullet mold that is still manufactured and build around it.

Tom at Accurate Moulds can make something for you in 30 caliber that would be easy to bump and fit well.

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45 2.1 posted this 12 February 2017

Build it to shoot both cast and jacketed.    Good suggestion.

Nothing wrong with a good bore riding bullet.  Except that you need a very good throat fit for really good accuracy.

Make sure you have 4 thousandths groove depth, land to groove width ratio of 1:1.5 to 1:2 and a normal twist for the caliber. A tapered nose bullet design will get you better accuracy along with a tight chamber neck.  

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Larry Gibson posted this 13 February 2017

The 30x57 (30 XCB) cartridge was designed expressly for cast 30 caliber bullets out of Mauser actioned rifles.  I suggest a 26” barrel with a 14” twist.  It will be fine with jacketed bullets up through 1.245 in length (Sierra 175 MKs) also.  Might check over on goodsteelforums.com for the complete skinny.  And you can shoot cast bullets up through 2600 fps with excellent accuracy.  For hunting I push a Lyman 178 gr 311041 at 2500+ fps out of my 14” twist but prefer the 30 XCB (NOE) or a Lyman 311466 for most target shooting.

 

The 30x57 is easily formed out of 30-06 based cases including the 8x57 which requires the littlest amount of forming.  And, like I said. the 30 XCB cartridge feeds slicker than snot through Mauser actions with no action alteration necessary and it is an amazingly accurate cartridge with cast bullets, especially at HV when the 14” twist is used.

 

LMG  

Concealment is not cover.........

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SierraHunter posted this 13 February 2017

Wanting to stick with 308 case or shorter since I have a lot of 308. Ross (2 buckets full)

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JSH posted this 13 February 2017

Doing all that work and wanting the gun to shoot, then a comment of a buckets of brass. Unless you have buckets of new brass. Do yourself a favor. If money is an object,sell some of the odds and ends out of the bucket and buy yourself some new, for this gun only brass. Kinda like building a blown, injected pro street car, then wondering why it won't run any times with bald used tires.

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SierraHunter posted this 13 February 2017

I suppose that is a really good point. Being young and not having a lot of extra funds, I am always looking for short cuts but maybe that's not always a good thing.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 13 February 2017

oh... sh mentioned $$$ ... dang ! .... reset .....;

now you need a spreadsheet ( g ) ... and we might widen your selection filters ...

do you really need a long neck case ??  note that top shooters barely seat the whole gas check .... and a current mj benchest case has almost no neck at all ... after all, the most effort in mj benchrest is to fix that dang neck error ... so why not just cut it off ... almost . ........ if it has something to do with seating long bullets .... how about just have a long-throated chamber ...... would seem better to have more of the bullet already guided in the throat when you pull the trigger ....

chamber reamers are available with no neck ... i have one for the 7mm rem mag ... then you ream the amount/dia. neck you want ... then the throat you want.

you might also consider a 7.62 x 39 ... lots of reamers around ...$$$ ... also lapua makes cases ( large primer ) for the  x39 .... for getting serious .   not sure but possible your mauser extractor will extract  x39 ....  for a starter/shooter barrel i bet you can find a small ring x39 barrel for $100 .... try green mountain ...  probably better than a factory barrel ... and you might get lucky .

notice that we all are having fun spending YOUR money ...  oh:  money ... you can probably get a still-excellent take-off match barrel in 30 cal ( 30 br---308  ) for about $200 ... but then needs crutched a bit to adapt it the 12 pitch mauser action . estimate another $100 ... but still cheeper than a new shilen plus chambering .

ken

 

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Larry Gibson posted this 13 February 2017

Wanting to stick with 308 case or shorter since I have a lot of 308. Ross (2 buckets full)
Sierra Hunter
JSH's comment is very valid.  However, new 308W  cases are readily available for just such a rifle.  But the problem very well be one of feeding in your SR Mauser.  Many times cartridges with minimal body taper (like the 308W) do not feed well from the magazine, especially with 2+ rounds in the magazine, unless some serious alteration is done to the action feed rails.  I suggest you put 5 rounds of 308W in the magazine and see if they feed with reliability. 
Put the bottom 3 to the front of the magazine because recoil will move them there.  That is usually where the problem is because the magazine side taper holds the should in but the follower can't raise the rear for the bolt to pick up the next cartridge.  The 30x57 has the correct taper and feeds w/o this problem. The 30x57 also uses standard 30-06 dies which are easily shortened.
If your action will feed 308Ws reliably then That cartridge will be fine, just won't have the '06 length neck (another designed advantage of the 30x57) and I suggest a 26” barrel with 14” twist.  My 308W Palma rifle has a 27.6” barrel with 14” twist and is an excellent cast bullet  and jacketed bullet shooter.  BTW; the 30x57 also has the same capacity as the .308W but simply has the correct body taper for Mauser actions and the '06 length neck for cast bullet use.
LMG 

 

Concealment is not cover.........

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frnkeore posted this 13 February 2017

 This is another option that you might like to try. A long necked 300 Savage. It's not hard to do. I built one with a 722 Rem barrel.

You just chamber in the 300S, then run a neck and throater reamer into it and increase the length of the chamber to 308 lenght (2.025), that gives you a neck that is .350 long. the '06 is .400 long but, you can also short chamber the 300 Savage reamer (by .050) and get that same .400 neck length.

This is what the differences are in the the feed rail, in taper per inch. Note that the '06 is not the same as 8mm and the 300 Savage is only .0009 less that the '06.

308 W = .006 300 S = .009 30/06 = .0081 8mm = .0117   So, if you'd like a 308 length chamber, with reduced capacity and a long neck, try a 300 Sav case in the magazine and see how it feeds. BTW, you need to install a bullet in the case to do the testing.

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JSH posted this 13 February 2017

Daniel, been in the same boat myself. I just picked up a lathe to finish up or try to finish up some projects from the past. I have several rifle and handgun projects that I pieced and parted together. I did a lot of swapping and trading to get some of it. Reminds me of the guy with the paper clip a few years ago. I didn't end up quite that good, but I still came out pretty good.

Another thing, if you build a wildcat, even if it is a well known one, the masses tend to shy away from them on the selling side. They want to go to local store grab some ammo and shoot. You want a long neck, I would look at the Krag real hard. A modern chambering, with good tolerances,centered to the bore will surprise most people. The Krag brass does throw another glitch in to your plans. Good centered chamber, proper throat and a custom mold for THAT chamber and I think half the battle is over.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 14 February 2017

 jsh:

agree that at least half of saami chambers in factory barrels shoot groups about twice as big as a good match chamber would allow in the same factory barrel .    that has been one reason for new factory cartridges ::  tighter saami specs ..... there was nothing really magic about the 222 rem. over say ... 219 zipper .... but the specs were tighter and of course went mostly into decent bolt rifles ,.

and so YES the 30-40 krag would be an excellent choice, if a match chamber was cut .......and as far as feeding .... do we need magazine feed for a cast bullet rifle ?? ...   or even if only one fed from the magazine .

300 savage ... ha .. i have a nice rem/ 722 in 300 savage .. and an extra barrel ... if anybody is interested .

jsh : i see you gained a lathe ... let me know if i can help you in any way to get it going .   just like bringing home a new pony !! ..

ken

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SierraHunter posted this 14 February 2017

Daniel, been in the same boat myself. I just picked up a lathe to finish up or try to finish up some projects from the past. I have several rifle and handgun projects that I pieced and parted together. I did a lot of swapping and trading to get some of it. Reminds me of the guy with the paper clip a few years ago. I didn't end up quite that good, but I still came out pretty good. Another thing, if you build a wildcat, even if it is a well known one, the masses tend to shy away from them on the selling side. They want to go to local store grab some ammo and shoot. You want a long neck, I would look at the Krag real hard. A modern chambering, with good tolerances,centered to the bore will surprise most people. The Krag brass does throw another glitch in to your plans. Good centered chamber, proper throat and a custom mold for THAT chamber and I think half the battle is over.

Not being able to see it is half the reason to go with a wildcat. Then you can't regret getting rid of it later 😀

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SierraHunter posted this 14 February 2017

Larry, I actually have of of those Turkish mauser rifles that had a 308 barrel on it, that feeds quite well. My dad also has one, in 308 as well, and it feeds just fine also, so I'm not too worried about feeding issues.

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tturner53 posted this 14 February 2017

I heard of a .308 Win. 'long neck' made by running 8x57Mauser through a .308W. die.

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Loren Barber posted this 15 February 2017

Jim,

Sounds like the tail wagging the dog to build a gun around a mold unless you have some remarkable mold.

Loren 

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Toot-Sweet posted this 24 February 2017

An awful lot of silhouette bolt gun cartridges were or are based on the 300 Savage to reduce capacity VS the 308 , then there is the 30 Remington, a rimless 30-30, which is the basis for the 6.8 SPC, a shortened 30 Rem necked down to .277 which could be necked back up to 30. The situation of the 308 is that it has more case capacity than you can probably really use for a cast bullet gun, so you may really need to reduce the capacity, any way, to improve the load density. Plus a 300 Savage is on most lists of recommended small ring conversions to start with.

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