Disappointment

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  • Last Post 29 August 2017
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GP Idaho posted this 20 June 2017

I've always bought into the buy American and locally is possible line of thought but folks out there in the gun industry are sure making it hard to do. In the last few months three new rifles have made their way into my accumulation. First up is the Czech built CZ527M carbine in 7.62X39, great little carbine, very accurate and the bore was so smooth right out of the box it was like someone had done Gary's bore polish trick on it.  Next up is my Savage model 10 FCP-SR this rifle is also very accurate and the chamber and bore are nice and tight. Somehow they managed to put a 3/4" long gash in the chamber wall that I'll have to polish out somehow as it scratches the brass and is mostly just an annoyance.  Then there's the new Marlin 1895 Cowboy the kids got me for fathers day I cleaned up the bore as one does on a new rifle and took a look with my bore scope. YIKES! not only was the rifling very rough with machine marks there were actual chunks missing from the lands as deep as the rifling. These chunks were about 1/8" long and there were several about 4 to 5" down the barrel from the muzzle.  That rifle is on it's way back to Remlin today. Remington just has to be one of the worst possible choices in firearms Pathetic QC. Very disappointed to have to have the kids take a nice gift back because some chimpanzee can't run a CNC machine.  Rant over. Gp

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Scearcy posted this 20 June 2017

I put my bore scope down the barrel of a brand new Remington 243 about 2 months ago. It was pitted from the factory. The bore of my new 243 Tikka looks like a custom barrel. Henry, anyone? Expensive but American made.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 20 June 2017

my  " newest " centerfire is ...uh .... either a ithaca/sako 308 ?? date ?? or a remmy 700v in 243 ... 1984 era ... and there is a reason for that ...  ... then the other day a friend brought by a marlin 336 in 30-30 to develop some plinking loads ... i had gave him that 1980 year jewel and was tickled to work with it again ...

yep, although the new ruger americans are a pretty good " go-bang " mechanism for the money  ... i don't lust after one ...

someone here asked why would anyone buy anything other than a Tikka ... i would add " or a remmy 721 from 1955 ... or a win. 70 from pre-1995 ... or a ruger 77 from 1980 ...etc.   " ... heh, $400 to gunbroker can make you happy ... a rifle with a story !!

my bucket list includes a 25-06 and a 260 remmy ... if my lottery ticket hits, it will be a new barrel on an old remchester action ... maybe a 25-20 on an old ruger3 ... real walnut stock, factory 1.5 trigger, steel floor plate... and a nice " snack " sound when i work the bolt .  oh, and a big grin when i set up my bean cans ...

just ramblin... ken

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comprschrg posted this 21 June 2017

GP Sorry to hear about your discovery.

I've been lurking around this forum for years without saying anything, only because someone else seems to say it better with very good humor. I've learned more that I'd like to admit and have even gotten a few guns to shoot without having to mine for lead for days after a ten minute range session. I can only echo your findings with newly manufactured guns. Ken does have the best suggestion, as usual. But I like you sometimes like to get something new and shiny. It's just fun. When I read your first post about your fathers day gift I didn't have the heart to tell you to look down the bore, and was hoping it was just the stainless barrels. I'm on my third, yea, 3rd 1895 45-70  barrel. I just sent the third one back last week. First it goes to Mann Son Sporting goods, they look it over and send it to marlin for re barrel. At least that's what the lady at Mann said. Believe me I tried to get a hold of anyone in the hierarchy of remington. With no luck! At repairs, I talked to Jim and Red. They seemed like nice folks. Jim said he would write a note to make sure someone looked at the bore before it got sent out again. But, he also said someone up the chain would get in touch with me. no one has. I hope yours turns out good. Mark

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GP Idaho posted this 21 June 2017

Thanks Mark;  I'll let you all know how this shakes out when the rifle gets back. They said three or four weeks. I hope the repair people are better at fixing guns than production line workers are at building them. Gp

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David Reiss posted this 21 June 2017

I am excited about the new Winchester .25-35, but I am afraid of what the quality may be like.

My last new rifle, a Mossberg Patriot walnut, 7mm-08 was a real pleasure to un-box. The fit and finish was great, the wood nice and the bore fairly smooth. It shoots great with sub-moa groups. Mossberg, CZ and a couple others are putting the pressure Remington & Winchester. 

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
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SierraHunter posted this 25 June 2017

I won't own another newer Remington or any of their side brands. I bought a R1 1911 in 2015 and it was such a piece of junk. When I first got it, the slide stop extended so far into the magazine that it would not let cartridges up out of the magazine. Naturally I got a file and fixed this. About 40 rounds in the slide started getting stickly, when after it came back, it would just creep forward to about the half way mark. I sent it back to Remington and they told me that since I had "Modified" it they wouldn't word on it. That gun had been a nightmare after another, and as of right now it sits in a box who knows where and I haven't touched it in over a year.

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SierraHunter posted this 25 June 2017

I put my bore scope down the barrel of a brand new Remington 243 about 2 months ago. It was pitted from the factory. The bore of my new 243 Tikka looks like a custom barrel. Henry, anyone? Expensive but American made.

 

I've seen too many of them broken off at the tang (All rim fire models). Since the tang is where the serial number is, they wont touch it, and won't replace it either.

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SierraHunter posted this 25 June 2017

my  " newest " centerfire is ...uh .... either a ithaca/sako 308 ?? date ?? or a remmy 700v in 243 ... 1984 era ... and there is a reason for that ...  ... then the other day a friend brought by a marlin 336 in 30-30 to develop some plinking loads ... i had gave him that 1980 year jewel and was tickled to work with it again ...

yep, although the new ruger americans are a pretty good " go-bang " mechanism for the money  ... i don't lust after one ...

someone here asked why would anyone buy anything other than a Tikka ... i would add " or a remmy 721 from 1955 ... or a win. 70 from pre-1995 ... or a ruger 77 from 1980 ...etc.   " ... heh, $400 to gunbroker can make you happy ... a rifle with a story !!

my bucket list includes a 25-06 and a 260 remmy ... if my lottery ticket hits, it will be a new barrel on an old remchester action ... maybe a 25-20 on an old ruger3 ... real walnut stock, factory 1.5 trigger, steel floor plate... and a nice " snack " sound when i work the bolt .  oh, and a big grin when i set up my bean cans ...

just ramblin... ken

 

I've got one of the Ruger Americans in 300 blackout, and with Jacketed it is a real joy. Its my every day go to truck gun. I haven't gotten it to work real well with cast yet, but haven't had a whole lot of time to mess with it because of work.

 

I've got a older Interarms in 25/06 that my dad gave me for a wedding Gift, and its a lot of fun. I was taking lunch the other day and a Jack rabbit made the mistake of stepping out to the edge of the gravel pit. I took a guess, clicked the scope up 6 clicks from a 100 yard 0 an made bird food on the first shot with a 87 grain Herters (Haven't seen those in a while huh?) Hollow point.

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OU812 posted this 26 June 2017

Take your time and run the bore scope down barrel and chamber before buying (especially Remington brand). The 90 degree mirror attachment is a must when looking for a evenly cut chamber throat, crown and rifling.

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harleyrock posted this 28 June 2017

I have bought two Thompson/Center Venture Weathershield rifles in 7mm08 for my grandsons in the last couple of years.  They both have been the most accurate "right out of the box" rifles I have ever experienced.  As good as some of my custom rifles. They are not picky about ammo either, although neither has been tried with cast bullets. The were an excellent value too, $437.00 including scope base installed. (GZander's and Sons.)

I believe T/C is owned by Smith&Wesson.  I don't know who owns S&W, and I don't know where the T/C centerfire rifles are made.

I have had some promising results working up a cast load for my 7X57 Winchester M70 Featherweight.  If the boys are interested I may use the same bullet (Lee 130gr flat nose Soup Can) to develop a load for their 7mm08s.  The rifling is 5R.  Is that good for cast?

Lifetime NRA since 1956, NRA Benefactor, USN Member, CBA Member

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TexasHillbilly posted this 02 July 2017

hummm interesting which lee soup can? maybe you could give me a mold number? I've had good luck with 5R rifling and cast bullets

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harleyrock posted this 02 July 2017

hummm interesting which lee soup can? maybe you could give me a mold number? I've had good luck with 5R rifling and cast bullets

The label on the box says: 006-7mmSOUPCAN,   7MM  Soup Can 130 Grain Six Cavity Special Order Mold

It is a flat nose gas check bullet.

I got it from MidSouth Shooters Supply.  That may be the only place you can get it since it was a special order (Not a special order by me, but by MidSouth).  It is also available in a two cavity mold.   I might add that this 6 cavity is the first Lee 6 cavity I have had and it is far superior to any of my other Lee one or two cavity molds.  In fact it is better than any of my iron molds.  I have a Mihec brass mold that casts beautiful bullets but is HEAVY and the bullets don't drop out of the cavities quite as readily as this Lee 6 banger.

 

Lifetime NRA since 1956, NRA Benefactor, USN Member, CBA Member

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M3 Mitch posted this 03 July 2017

Well, to turn attention to the good news in your post, I have been looking at those CZ carbines for some time, looks like it would be a good to great CB rifle, so we have that.

Remington until recently made a good, accurate rifle and of course the 870 shotgun is sort of a world standard.  About the time they bought out Marlin, for some reason things went south.  IMHO the safety and the extractor on the M700 left something to be desired, but the rifles did shoot accurately. 

But, more good news, something I read on here IIRC - say 20 years ago,  most Remington rifles were more accurate out of the box than Rugers.  Ruger was using at least some mediocre barrels, from what I read.  But fast forward to now, and about the same time as Ruger went from a red recoil pad to black, they have either got more serious about making barrels, or found themselves a better vendor.  Most Rugers shoot quite well, out of the box, nowadays, from what I read anyway.

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John F. posted this 04 July 2017

I heartily second the recommendation not to buy a modern Remington without bore-scoping it first!!  I bought a 7mm Mag PSS some years ago, and before starting to take throat measurements, etc., cleaned it and then bore-scoped it.  2 of the rifling grooves ran right into the chamber neck, and 2 grooves stopped about 3/8" ahead of the neck, leaving an un-rifled portion opposite the rifled half.

I took photos of the throat with my camera through the bore-scope, and attached the photos to a letter with an explanation of what the viewer was seeing in each photo, with arrows, etc. so that even a moderately smart possum could figure it out.  It was still under warranty.  I returned it and about a month later, got a notice from the Post Office that I had a COD package, and if I wanted my rifle back, I had to pay $75 to get it!!

I then looked into the bore, etc.  The crown had previously been perfect, but now had been dinged, and the barrel was shorter than factory standard, having obviously been set back  and re-chambered.  The real pisser was that they included a very poor "chamber cast" and claimed that my chamber had been normal, and that they had charged me $50 for the cast!! 

Having a CLUE about their "professional ethics" from the horror stories of several fellow shooters, I had written down all the proof marks on the barrel and their location before I sent the rifle in.  Now, there were 2 sets of proof marks - one that had been sand-blasted and re-finished over, plus a fresh set oriented correctly as the barrel was now installed!!  Clear evidence of MAIL FRAUD.

I called the dealer I'd bought the rifle from, explained the above, and that the penalty for mail fraud is 5 years per count -- Federal,  He said to hold on, he'd get his Remington rep. on the phone.  20 minutes later, I had a call:  Did I want a new barrel, a new gun, or what?  Well, the rifle came with several sub-half MOA 3-shot groups purporting to have been shot with my rifle at 100 yards, and was blessed with an extremely smooth bore and (formerly) perfect crown.  The new chamber looked well done -- so I said "I'd like my money back, and if the rifle doesn't shoot well, I'd like a new barrel."   Done.

Turns out the rifle did shoot well -- 10-shot groups under 1/2 MOA at 300 yards with 175 gr. Sierra Matchkings, with very little load workup, so I kept it.  However, I have encountered MANY Remingtons with this rifling defect over the years.  I went to buy a .300 Win Mag PSS some years ago, was ready to run the credit card, and then took a look with the Hawkeye Bore Scope.  NOPE. Barrel bad... same problem as before.  I asked the dealer if he could get the rifle fixed by Remington, since he was a dealer. (It was a special, limited edition with several nice, extra features.)  He said I'd have better luck with Remington than he ever would... That was bad news indeed, given my previous experience.  He then offered to buy 2 more standard PSS's (the limited edition one he had was the only one available), and let me bore-scope them and pick the better of the two.

When they came in, I carefully scoped them.  One had the poorly-rifled throat, although only about half as bad as the others I'd seen, and the other had a properly machined barrel, so I bought it. 

I would guess between me and several friends, I've  personally encountered 9+ Remingtons with this problem in the past 10 years.

I will no longer even consider buying any new Remington without bore-scoping it first, and their extremely bad treatment on my warranty repair remains a very sore point -- that i consider very carefully whenever the urge to buy a Remington hits me.

Hope this helps -- forewarned is fore-armed!

John

 

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GP Idaho posted this 04 July 2017

Thank you John for your post. There's a thread over at Boolits that speaks of Remington's barrel problems and their warranty repair practices. I've heard that they have so many that the work is subbed out and not even done in-house. This is just a shame, two of my most accurate rifles are Remington 700's One is a special run 26" 223 and a 25-06 that's just a laser. As mentioned, take a bore scope with you when looking over new rifles and if the dealer won't let you scope the bores then find another that will. Sad but it seems to me that "Big Green" has fallen into the pit of corporate greed. If this repair work on the 45-70 goes well I'll be posting the results and giving credit where due as no mass produced products come out perfect each and every time. Hoping for the best out-come. Gp

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GP Idaho posted this 24 August 2017

Thought I'd share our experience with the Remlin 1895 cowboy 45-70 and the customer service we received. S.I.L. took the rifle back to the dealer where he bought it and ask them to scope the barrel and see for themselves. They replied that the shop didn't own a bore scope even though they advertise "Gunsmith on duty"  Salesman took a look down the bore using a small flashlight and said "OMG" as if he knew something and the rifle went back to Remington for repair. Six weeks later the rifle was returned with a five shot target fired somewhere by some rifle and a note that stated that they could see no reason for the customer complaint and the rifle fired just fine. Soooo, I guess  if bullets exit the bore that's enough for the folks at Remington.  After much to-do and resorting to threats to the local shop Chris got in touch with Mr. Big at their main office and the shop returned the purchase price in full.  Now the good news. A new Henry 45-70 with the case hardened frame and octagon barrel arrived yesterday and it's beautiful. Wood fitting and checkering are perfect and the bore shines like a mirror so the story ended well after all. Gp

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Pigslayer posted this 25 August 2017

Would love to have that Henry!

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 25 August 2017

my rem.40X-BR in 22rf  ( 1990 era !! ) came from the custom shop with the throat off center ... visibly .... this was a BR, not a varminter .... apparently remington custom shop doesn't have a bore scope either .  still shot 0.4 at 50 yards ... good enough for a " participation " certificate in ARA ...

ken

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JSH posted this 26 August 2017

I have few older Remington's. The only new rifles I have bought in the last 20 years have been savages. As a young, always close to broke, new shooter, the guys that tried to help me get started pushed the Remington's and Winchesters. I looked at the Savages and asked them about them. I may as well have kicked their dog and kissed their daughter, would not have made them any madder and disgusted with my question. Now forward about 15 years. I bought a tuned up savage, threw a scope on it. Shot better than any of the Remington's. I swapped off several for savage rifles and have not looked back. Those guys that put the Savages down have eaten their words at the range more than once. Just picked up a LRPV in 223 last weekend. Once again it did not disappoint. Mixed lot of ammo, scope was not in good alignment, went ahead and shot to get it on paper. Last three from a batch of P dog ammo went into 1/4-5/16" outside to outside. I see a lot of good on the Tikka rifles. I will have one sooner or later. Jeff

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GP Idaho posted this 27 August 2017

Jeff; I'm a Savage fan also and I'm very impressed with the CZ-USA rifles. My two best shooting bolt guns are Remington 700's from years gone by. One is a matte stainless 25-06 that just loves cast bullets. I was fire forming some brass that I sized down from 270 last week and got yet another sub MOA five shot group at 100yrds. The other is a special run 26" inch 223 that shoots bug holes so long as you feed it 52-53gr. match jacketed bullets. It accepts no substitutes.  After recent problems I'll not be buying anymore of the Remington products until they start caring about the customer as much as they do the stock holder. I'm afraid that will take going broke and selling Big Green to some gun people that care. And this is just my opinion and we all now what that's worth. Gp

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