Looking for data .30BR

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 24 April 2017

I have acquired from my late fathers estate his .30BR cast bullet heavy bench gun. It seems his bullet of choice was 309200. Any suggestions on a powder to use? 

 

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Tom Acheson posted this 25 April 2017

Find a copy of the latest (#4?) Lyman Cast Bullet book. There is one page dedicated to 30 BR loads.

 

Tom

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 25 April 2017

Tom it is not in #4. I have that one.

I was given a suggestion in a PM to look at match results postings in TFS. I'm in the process of that. It is interesting that V135 seems to be popular for this cartridge. V133 also and it looks like one person at least is using IMR3031, I have that. Guess I'll start there.

I was able to shoot the rifle yesterday evening. Since my dad developed everything to shoot good at 200 yards that's where I set my target with a 1” dot to aim at. Set the scope per his written directions, Fired two shots, both low. The sight picture was out of focus as well. I first adjusted the eyepiece, that didn't clear it up. Moved next to the objective lens, found a setting that was much clearer. Moved the sights up. Horizontal was nearly perfect. group size was guessing about 4” for 7 shots. By then the wind was increasing. I think there are 25 or so loads left.

I might pull one bullet and weigh the powder charge and note type of powder, ball or extruded. Needless to say I now have plenty to keep me busy for a few years at least.

 

 

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Tom Acheson posted this 25 April 2017

Mark,

 

Try looking at Chapter 17, page 78. It is not in the traditional load data area.

 

I have a pdf of it but cannot attach it.

 

Tom

 

Tom

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frnkeore posted this 25 April 2017

On the West Coast, they are also using IMR 8208 and AA2495. 26 - 26.5 gr for either.

Frank

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 25 April 2017

Thanks Tom. I thought I had seen that but could not find it in the load data area or cartridge listing either.

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Tom Acheson posted this 26 April 2017

Mark,

Just a short follow-up to the subject.

If you look at that 30 BR chart in the Lyman book you’ll see only two loads using Vihtavouri powder. In my experience N-133 worked very well in my 30 PPC chambering. Comparing the 30 PPC to the 30 BR, the water-full capacity of the BR is about 4-grains greater than the PPC case. Despite N-133 being annoyingly more expensive than quite a few other powders, N-133 has found great favor in the jacketed bullet BR crowd in the 6 PPC chambering. So as you start the research for a powder in your 30 BR, try not to overlook the potential that the Vihtavouri products may give you.

Tom

 

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 26 April 2017

Tom,

Thanks. So much to learn. I took a break for a few years from shooting however i've cast for pistol and rifle since the late 80's and reloaded since the early 80's. In all the times I spent with my dad we almost never talked much about his cast bullet benchrest habits in more than just general terms. Never specifics. I'm guessing at the time he knew that it was a hobby that would suck me in and I would not have been able to afford to play. His notes and records told him what he wished to remember but are near useless to me. Lucky for me I am able to think my way through using tools. The only 7/8x14 dies I found for 30BR are case forming dies. He seems to have used Lyman 310 tools for much of his loading. I've not figured out how he seated bullets, perhaps by hand?

The few loads he left had uniform OAL. I figured, and it worked, that I could just use my .30-06 seater with the stem screwed in nearly the whole way. I'll need to come up with a better solution I'm thinking. I am starting with H322, IMR4227 and IMR3031. We'll see if those show any promise this weekend weather permitting. I'm also thinking I need to scrap most of the brass I have as there seems to be huge differences in neck tension and I'm not sure I want to go down the road of loading one case at a time at the range.

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 04 May 2017

Ordered a pound of N135. OMG! The price of that powder is crazy expensive. Hope it performs.

So far the powders and bullets I've tried have been less than stellar. Although none seemed horrible. Finished the weekend with a casting session.

Thinking about powders, wonder if 5744 would be a worthwhile prospect.

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OU812 posted this 04 May 2017

Look back at match results to see what powders they are using. I do not think 5744 is on any ones list  using a 30BR.

309200 sounds like a LBT mould (tapered design?). Do you taper bump the bullet to match throat? Isn't fitting bullet to throat most important.

What action, stock and twist of barrel?

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 05 May 2017

All good questions OU812. I'll have to look at the mold. I'll post a pic, actually probable several pics.

309200 is a single grease groove GC roundnose, an iron mold so likely RCBS...

I've used two bullets that my dad cast plus Lyman 311332 that I cast.

Groups have been over 1" but under 2" for the most part at 100 yards. I know the rifle is capable of much better, It formerly had the 100 yard 10 shot group record. The barrel has been either changed since then or shortened and re-chambered.

To find his load I might have to chat with Rich McClure and see when it was Dad last shot in a match at SRC (Spokane Rifle Club) and then look at the results in a copy of TFS.

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Ed Harris posted this 05 May 2017

FWIW John Ardito used RL7 in his .308x1.625" rifles with 200-grain bullet and 14" twist.  Don't remember charge, but case was nearly full and the loads were HOT~!  I was guess in the range of 21-24 grains. He would load the same case sequentially at the range on an arbor press, and didn't resize cases as springback was adequate to hold bullet in case by gascheck and base band only, being technically fixed ammo, but breech seated as the bolt closed.  His 200-yard groups are legendary...

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 20 May 2017

I was mistaken on the bullet number, it is 311335, a Lyman RN. The other is an RCBS 30-180.

I've made a bit of progress. I discovered that his powder of choice was Varget right after placing my order at a local gun shop for VN135.

28.5 grains of Varget and the 311335 sized .309 and lubed with Lee Alox gave me this 5 shot group last night. The wind was from 7 o-clock 15-20 mph with higher gusts. I'm pleased. This seems like real progress.

I've loaded up some test loads with VN135 now and am headed to the range for more windy day testing.

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Scearcy posted this 21 May 2017

That group shows real promise. The vertical may not be the load. Do you have a chronograph? Try a couple more groups and pay careful attention to your shoulder pressure. You might get a pleasant surprise.

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 22 May 2017

I do have a chronograph, sadly had a bullet take out one of the diffuser rods on Friday while sighting in. Had a learning opportunity. I had removed the scope to make a chamber cast. The bases have built-in windage adjustment; I was not aware of that feature until my shots were missing the target at 100 yards. Put up a target at 25 yards which was a bit to the right but it looked like I still had a clear path over the chrono, turned out I was mistaken.

Saturday morning I returned to the range and in spite of wind had a few very good groups, much better than above. I'll be posting pics and details later. The more I shoot the more I understand that the greatest variable, the shooter, is what requires the most tuning.

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 22 May 2017

Pic says it all. I also had a more promising group with VN135. Needless to say I'm smiling.

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JeffinNZ posted this 22 May 2017

WOW.

Cheers from New Zealand

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Scearcy posted this 23 May 2017

I guess it would be an understatement to say you appear to be on the right path!!!!!!!!

Very nice.

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 23 May 2017

Not to trivialize this great group but it is just one group and only at 100 yards. I am hoping I can make this a habit

I am playing with the idea of writing an article for TFS about the rifle and the man who built it.

 Thanks for the kind words.

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OU812 posted this 23 May 2017

That would be very interesting. TFS is lacking in heavy BR target rifle articles.

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longhunter posted this 23 May 2017

I have a similar story. Bought a rifle from an old rifle club member who had died. Frank Fauver,(I call it a .308 Kurz) It was a 308 X 1.75.  Lots of molds with it. No data but a few loaded rounds.  A couple marked but had powder that is no longer made.  I'm still working it out. I  cast 311284/311299 and have been shooting low velocity loads with IMR 4227. 15.0 gr. Ok but a work in progress.

I had no dies either.  Cut a 308 die down resized 308 brass. Shorted to 1.75. Turned down the necks. Used a NOE neck expander .310 dia  .311 sizing die for the bullets.   A .308 seating die and off to the range.

Jon

 

Jon Welda CW5 USA Ret.

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OU812 posted this 24 May 2017

I here that brass with small primer pocket and flash hole works better in this cartridge?

I am wanting to build a dual purpose (tactical/bench rest) repeating rifle chambered in the 30BR. I have seen tactical rifles built on Remington BDL actions that would shoot on par with a heavy bench rest type rifles. I know the tactical stock (narrow forearm/ more angled butt) would be more difficult to shoot off bags, but it can be done.

 http://www.6mmbr.com/Rem700magfix.html

 

...

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 24 May 2017

@longhunter I have not had any luck with 4227, yet. I'm trying it in another cartridge. I have a custom form die for this rifle. For sizing (slightly) and decapping I use an Ideal tong tool. A lee hand primer and seat bullets by hand and if needed have a .30/06 seating die set up (I don't currently have an '06) to push in bullets. Most cases a simple push of the bullet is all that is needed. I then use a tool to push the case into the chamber if needed.

@OU812 It seems there is not much difference in chamber sizing between .30BR and .308x1.5" with the two exceptions of .30BR is not standardized (yet) and the neck is a bit longer. The difference in cases from what I've been reading beyond small vs large primer the 6mm BR case has higher capacity. Interesting that small prime might work better. There has to be some reason my Dad switched to .30BR. His record group pre-dated the .30BR. was a short fat .30. When he retired the barrel he cut the chamber off. A .30BR case will not press in, not sure why. I plan to make a casting of it to see what the dimensions are.

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 26 July 2017

I have since entered in two matches. In June, Spokane, WA and last weekend (July 22) at Kenmore, WA.

At the Spokane match I didn't shoot good at all however I improved through the match.

At Kenmore I did much better! My 100 yard score was 198-5x, 200 yard score wasn't even close to as good but it was enough to give me a second place.

I was using the Lyman 311335 in Spokane but for Kenmore switched to an RCBS 30-180-SP. Although I have used nearly a pound of N135 I am not convinced it is any more accurate than Varget in my rifle. I have started to orient each bullet in the chamber and am staying with one cavity per match or group. I am skeptical that either matters but have not shot enough groups each way to prove either way. I have even tried loading at the range with a single case per 10 shot group. Although I have not shot enough groups to reach any conclusions, there were not any earth shattering groups. More experimentation is planned.

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