Lorenz original Austrian Rifled Musket in 69 cal, looking for advice

  • Last Post 27 July 2017
corerftech posted this 25 July 2017

I have a chance to pick up a Lorenz from pre 1858, percussion, Not Civil War 54/58 cal, the sniper rifle with the knee/ramp indexed rear sight to 1200 paces.  

As far as I know this is a rare one. Weren't many in the sharpshooter class made and most were sent to the US for wartime with 54/58 barrels.

No longer contemplating, I own it. Sight goes out to 1500 Shritt (paces)

There is NOT A MARKING anywhere on the rifle, no proof, no stamps of any kind. No numbers, very very odd. If it as scrubbed, it was done pre 1880 as there is NO WAY to produce the aging that has been generated.The bore will clean to exceptional. Being an iron barrel, Im looking at what 2F loads I can run safely (following a couple of proofs) and what conical I can run patched. Most of the ones I can find data on are 58/54 cal and thats not helpful!


I can find almost zero reference to this particular caliber/rifle design. Im stoked for this one, I swore off buying any more ML's but this one is had to be acquired!! Romping on a muley with it at 100, being 163 years old is a superb idea.

Who here shoots a patched 69 cal with an iron barreled gun that might be able to speak into the bullet best suited that is still available in current mold? Id like to shoot the conical style, not an RB....??? Don't care about minutia, just guidance on BP load and a potential available mold that is proven to shoot descent.

Id like to take an opportunity to hunt an 1854 rifle!!!

It measures about .703 at the muzzle and I say that about 69 cal patched. Rudimentary measurement of poor accuracy but its not a 72!!


Maybe Im wrong about the conical, maybe that was reserved for the conversion guns and US delivered arsenal. Maybe its RB only???



Thanks in advance



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onondaga posted this 26 July 2017


A novel solution that is pretty inexpensive to try and is very close to .690" to fit patched in your rifle is the Lee 12 ga slug mold. They are designed to fit in a shot cup in a 12 ga shell so they cast at ~.690". The mold is very inexpensive ($25.99) and I'm sure you could determine what patch thickness would fit well. I cast these for 12 ga and load them in a shotcup. There is 2 weight slug molds available from Lee, 7/8 or 1 oz cast in pure lead.  They have to be cast pretty hot in pure lead to cast well, but I get them to run fine at 750 degrees F. dropping 3 a minute. Lee also makes a .690" round ball mold and I use that too. Slug molds:


These drop very close to .690" If your rifle has a slower round ball twist, the lighter 7/8 oz slug would likely fly better, but I'd try both. Sometimes the heavier one shoots better just because it is heavier.

About 70 gr. of 2F Black Powder would be a light target load, but I'd use Alliant Black MZ replica powder as it is infinitely cleaner and smokes the same. You would need about 100 gr or more for a decent Deer load.

Also for reference, the .690 RB weighs 1 and 3/8 oz. in pure lead so it is heavier than either slug from Lee and has brutal recoil with any reasonable charge.



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rhbrink posted this 26 July 2017

Have you contacted the NSSA or Researchpress.blogspot.co.uk someone there may be able to help you with some information? Myself i would avoid any of the substitute black powder they are modern powders made for modern steel barrels. And I would think about using 1 1/2 Fg maybe 1 FG which would probably be closer to what was originally used. Have you tried to determine the twist rate  that should help determine if it was made to shoot round ball or bullet of some type? For myself I would try a patched round ball with proper powder first CAREFULLY and see what happens and then  go from there. Good luck!

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gnoahhh posted this 26 July 2017

I would determine rate of twist of its rifling before selecting a projectile. It may have a slow ROT for round balls or vice versa for bullets.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 27 July 2017

... i think you wuill not have much trouble getting that old rig to shoot .....

but where in the world are you gonna get pepsi cans big enough to plink at ?? .... 5 gallon pickle buckets from mcdonalds ?? ...


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corerftech posted this 27 July 2017

Rhbrink sent me the right direction. Donald Dixon apparently is the authority and proved it today, on all things Lorenz and I don't have a Lorenz. It's too old to be one!! He will be making a final formal diagnosis after full disassembly for pictures but it appears to be a Muster 1842 System Augustin musket in 70 caliber proper. It has been modified likely by Liege to suit the requesters desires. So the odd duck rear sight, conversion from flint, etc all for someone and then potentially sent to the US for civil war service. Fact is it's in insane condition relative to any specimens I have seen to date, period!!


hes traveling for 10 days but he will get a photo sack of info to forensicallly study and determine what it is officially. The lack of the markings is " ok" hasn't b scrubbed, it's just early and may have been made that way to suit a request or at time of conversion. 


I think all all that mans is its really old and rare and I'm going to shoot it with a patched round ball and 50 -60 get of FFg when I get to TN. Yep, doing it!


oldest Gun own, dad has a French pistol from 17xx pretty flipping old, I'd shoot it! If I get my hands on it, I'll do just that's. Life insurance is current.


just an update.....

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David Reiss CBA Membership Director posted this 27 July 2017

Please post some pictures on this thread. We all want to see it.

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
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rhbrink posted this 27 July 2017

Me too! I would like to see some pictures.

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