Lyman 311672

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  • Last Post 24 February 2019
Wallyl posted this 17 February 2019

Having some issues using this bullet in a Rem 700 .308 Win & .30-06.  I have been using Red Dot powder with charges from 11.0 to 13.0 grains.  At the 13.0 grain charge weight I have been getting lots of flyers with very large groups at 150 yards.  Seems the issue is that the bore riding nose is undersized and doesn't bore ride as it was designed to do.  It measures in at .2985".  Has anyone else had experience using this bullet in these calibers.  I have found that the Lee 150 RF-GC is far more accurate. 

 

I may soon have a Lyman 311440 to experiment with--it has a nose that is at .300". 

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Scearcy posted this 17 February 2019

Wally

I doubt that this is helpful but I had very poor luck with my 311672. I never did understand why as mine was large enough. There are other designs which are consistently reliable. You may be ahead to move on.

Jim

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Wallyl posted this 17 February 2019

Jim,

I shoot many cast calibers and the fact that this bullet under-performed had me stumped.  I thank you ever so much for your sharing your experience. Kind of interesting that the Lee 150 RF-GC shot was so much more accurate for me.  What powders did you try using the 311672 cast bullet?

 

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Scearcy posted this 18 February 2019

Wallyl

I tried the 311672 in the 3006, 308 and 300 Blackout so in total I tried many powders. I shoot mostly 4759, 5744, 4198, 2400 and some 4895 in the 308 and/or 3006. I have never been much of a fan of Red Dot, Bulls Eye or even Unique in anything other than rabbit loads. Now I know many use these fast powders frequently. I just haven't used them much in matches.

Now the RCBS 30-180 SP and the Accurate 312-160 FN (Harris bullet) have shot well in almost every rifle. Lee has a very good 180 gr bullet I believe but I have never tried it.

Jim

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Wallyl posted this 18 February 2019

Jim,

I always try to find an accurate  load with Red Dot/Blue Dot/Unique using cast rifle bullets.  I also make my own GCs, My requirements are that the load be able to hit a suspended soup can at 150~200 yards more than 50% of the time.  I shoot into a sand hill and I mine the lead.  I am not one that enjoys paper punching. That RCBS 180 SP-GC works fantastically in my .30-06 & has met my requirements.  I may soon have a Lyman 311440;  that will be a good one to try in the ,308 Win.  I am a fan of the fast shotgun powders as you use less & I use them in my pistol loads.  I am a huge fan of Promo. I understand with match shooting one is striving for the best possible accuracy.  I think it is wonderful to ascribe to doing that, but I want to get out and shoot more than wanting to win a match. I shoot ,22 Cal cast bullets as well...that is a real challenge to find an accurate load at ranges of 150~200 yards.

 

 

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Hornet posted this 19 February 2019

Wallyl

   I don't have that particular mold but it appears to be Lyman's interpretation of the RCBS 308-165-SILHOUETTE bullet. The RCBS has a ~.375 long body and an intended nose bearing length around .312. if the nose is under bore diameter, you don't really have enough bearing length for good guidance down the barrel. This is maybe a little worse due to the fast powder used. The Lee 309-150-F has a body just under .50 long and a nose bearing length around .200. A third more body bearing length and a third less nose that COULD be unsupported maintain alignment much better. The nose on my Lee 150 runs .299/.301 (which does well in a lot of barrels).

   You could lap the undersized nose on the Lyman out to provide a better fit if you have some basic tools. I do my lapping by hand rather than power since it is much easier to keep things from going wrong as fast. That may reduce the allowable alloy choice to maintain a usable fit. I have found that the nose on my RCBS 308-165-SILH will expand about .002 if I cast them from ~11 BHN  wheelweights and seat and crimp a Gatorcheck on in a .309 die in the lubrisizer, which is convenient. I do NOT recommend trying to deliberately bump the diameter of any hard allow in a librisizer since that tends to overload and bend/break the operating linkage.

     The 311440 can be very accurate and extremely effective as a hunting bullet but it's got the ballistic coefficient of a beer can and slows down fast. It might not be real happy by the time it reaches 200 yards but sometimes things work out regardless of initial impressions. I ran them out of a 94 Winny at 230 yards but it was on some fairly big steel targets so it was difficult to determine grouping ability.

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Wallyl posted this 19 February 2019

Hornet,

 

Thank you.  I suspected as much;  I did mention that the Lee 150 RF-GC had a wider nose than the Lyman 311672.  Before I do "surgery" on the later, perhaps it might be best to beagle it and see if that improves its' accuracy. I have lapped out Lyman molds before using a screw on a bullet and lapping compound and a drill.  Would you be so kind to describe how I could do so by hand? I am unfamiliar with the procedure.  I would then try to keep the lap on the bullet nose only without grinding/lapping away at the base of the bullet--if that is possible.  In the .308 Win a 11.5 grain load of Red Dot;  the bullet it quite accurate.  This spring I will try 12.5 of Unique and, if necessary 14.0 of Blue Dot.  That might solve the issue.  

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BudHyett posted this 19 February 2019

Would you be so kind to describe how I could do so by hand? I am unfamiliar with the procedure.  I would then try to keep the lap on the bullet nose only without grinding/lapping away at the base of the bullet--if that is possible.

Very lightly scribe lines or dots from the nose on a pair of pliers on the area you want to enlarge. And I do mean lightly. Then add lapping compound to this area and work the lap. This approach will take longer, but will have control on the spread of the lap in the area you want to lap.. 

 

Country boy from Illinois, living in the Magical Pacific Northwest

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Wallyl posted this 20 February 2019

BudHyett,

 

Thank you...what a great idea.  I measured the noses on three different cast .30 Cal bullets---the Lyman 311672 is .002" smaller.  I am guessing opening up the nose by .002" will make it more accurate. 

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Hornet posted this 21 February 2019

I usually take the sprue plate off, put a casting in each cavity, then clamp it up in my little drill press vice. I pick a tap that gives some clearance in the cavities ( about a #8-32 for .30 cal) and put in a drill bit that's a number size or so larger than recommended for that tap size and set the depth stop to go about 1/2 to 2/3 through the length of the bullet. I eyeball the drill bit in the middle of the bullet ( the sprue mark can help here) and drill the hole. I repeat for about 3 bullets per cavity. I take the blocks out and move to a little 2-1/2" wide vise , lay a drilled bullet in each cavity then clamp the blocks in that vise. I dig out a few taps and run one into each bullet until it either stops turning readily or the bullet starts turning in the blocks. Take the bullets out of the blocks and put a very small amount of fairly fine ( 400 grit or so- DO NOT use valve grinding mix- it sometimes has larger bits scattered in it) in the cavity, in this case a thin line down the length of the nose section of each cavity. Clamp things back in the little vise but not real tight and try turning the taps a little. If the bullets don't turn, loosen the vise a little until you can turn each bullet a turn or so. This helps round the bullets out and spread the lapping compound. Now take everything out of the vise and clean the block faces, try to wipe as much lapping compound as you can off any areas on the bullets that you don't want lapped. Lock everything back in the vise, adjust the clamping until you can turn each bullet a few times. You should feel the effort getting more uniform as things round out a bit more. Take things out, clean the block faces again and repeat. Doing the turning by hand takes longer but it allows the bullet to maintain alignment in the cavity without being forced around by a off-center drill job or bad alignment with a drill. Swapping the bullets from one cavity to another frequently helps keep the cavity dimensions fairly identical. I can usually get just about .001 diameter increase out of 3 bullets per cavity and then need to cast new ones for laps and check dimensions. It's not the fastest way to do it but I get results that I like.

Wow, that was a bunch more typing than I like to do...tongue-out

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Wallyl posted this 21 February 2019

Hornet,

Thank you for explaining the way you lap molds.  I will give it a try;  hopefully that will make the bullets cast from the mold more accurate. 

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Wallyl posted this 24 February 2019

I tried to Beagle the mold using one layer of aluminum tape.  The tape is .003" thick so I guessed that the cast bullet would be .003" thicker perpendicular to the parting line...when I measured them--there was no increase in diameter at all! 

 

The bullet is quite accurate (2" groups at 100 yards) with 11.5 of Red Dot.  Perhaps I should just leave it alone and be happy with that. 

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R. Dupraz posted this 24 February 2019

The aluminum furnace duct tape that I have used measures .003" off the roll but that includes the glue layer. The aluminum itself is more like .1"-.0015" after the glue is squished out by closing it in a hot mold a few times. 

R. 

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Wallyl posted this 24 February 2019

Mine measures .007---When I removed the backing it was .003" thick;  I figured the adhesive was .001".  

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