Powder Recommendations For PB 30/06 Loads

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  • Last Post 24 July 2018
pat i. posted this 20 July 2018

I'm looking for proven powders to try in 06 PB loads. I've tried Unique and Bullseye so far but being old fashioned and not keeping up with recent powder development I was wondering if there are others out there to try. While the gun shot decent with 9 grs of Unique I was getting some tipping with the Accurate Molds 31-200S which is 1.115 long. I did modify and order the same mold so its now .950 long cataloged as the 31-165S and maybe that will help. I know Joe B. Is finding you can get decent accuracy with tipping bullets but I'm sure you can get even better accuracy without the tipping. For lube I was using both thinned liquid alox and Rooster Jacket. They didn't shoot much different up to this point at the low velocity I'm getting but the RJ leaves the barrel totally clean. Its available again from Midway and Buffalo Arms. I'm looking for something that'll shoot at least semi respectably in the hunting rifle class.

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Scearcy posted this 20 July 2018

Data from the Groundhog shoots:

13 gr  4756

6 gr  Trail Boss

14-15 gr  4759

many with Unique and BE

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onondaga posted this 20 July 2018

I have a different question to you. Why would you use anything besides H4895? H4895 was chemically engineered for the 30-06. Hodgdon recommends H4895 down to 1/2 available volume in the 30-06 and ignition is dependable down to that very low level and up to the MAXIMUM recommended load for any bullet weight it is recommended by Hodgdon. Also H4895 has a blatantly smooth burn curve that is very friendly to plain base or gas checked cast bullets. Plus the accuracy with H4895 is a  proven contest winner good for the 30-06 since it was first introduced. The powder is also very universally available. You don't have a case for anything else.

 

Gary

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bullshop posted this 20 July 2018

A few years ago our local gun shop had a sell out sale on Alliant#410 at such a low price that I bought it all, about 10 pounds.  On the published burn rate charts #410 is right along side Alliant 2400.

As I searched for published load data from Alliant I found they have published data for only one cartridge with this powder which is the 410 gauge shot gun.

Over the last few years I have developed numerous cast bullet rifle loads with this powder to the point that it is now my go to powder for cast bullet rifle loads.  I have used it in about as wide a range of calibers as can be found from 50/70 Gov to the 22 Hornet and every non magnum cartridge in between that I regularly shoot.

This powder has become an absolute favorite for the 22 Hornet and 30-40 Krag.  Just yesterday I developed a load for a Savage 22-250 rifle that was a 10th birthday gift for my daughter a few days ago. Using the 55gn Don Egan MX-3 and 12gn of Alliant 410 and an RP 9 1/2 primer my daughter is happily on her way clearing gophers from our pasture.  After zeroing her rifle with 7 of the 10 rounds she had she went on to eliminate 3 gophers from the pasture with  the remailing 3 shots.

It is quite a shame that Alliant never saw fit to offer any other loads for this powder than for the 410 gauge as it is a very flexible powder for use in cast rifle loads. I will be very disappointed if ever they decide to discontinue this powder because of lack of sales but they seemed to have possibly doomed it to this fate by offering no load data for other than the 410 gauge shot gun. 

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pat i. posted this 20 July 2018

Gary do you have first hand experience using 4895 in the 06 with PB bullets or a place to point me where I can read of others experiences? I'm looking for things that have a good chance of panning out. 4895 is a great powder but I don't know if it's the best choice here.

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Redleged posted this 20 July 2018

Hi Pat. This last Groundhog Shoot, I used two .30-06 rifles. One a Browning B78, the other, an M1 Garand. Bullet was NOE 310-165gr XCB Plain Base (my mold has one cavity PB and one GC) in #2 Lyman lubed with White Label BAC using Blue Dot powder. The B78 liked 8.0gr, the M1 liked 9.0gr. Both using WLRP and neither had a filler. I should note that these groups were shot with cull bullets used for load development at 50 yds. My score on the shoot was 99 for the M1 and 97 for the B78. Obviously, the 9 grains of BD won't cycle the M1, but they are easy to shoot, and accurate. I also use H4895 in my Garands, but with the heavier Lee C309-200-R bullet. Hope this helps. Ed

BD - B78BD - M1

Growing old is mandatory, growing up, however, is totally optional!

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Ed Harris posted this 20 July 2018

My friends Dick Nearing and Dennis Carlini have good results with in the '06 with 8.5-9.0 grs. of Winchester WST shotgun powder

03 Springfield Iron Sights NEI#69 Pl.Base 8.5 WST

Mauser Sporter NEI#69 Plain Base 8.5 WST 100 yds

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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pat i. posted this 21 July 2018

I want to thank you guys for the replies. Blue Dot I have. WST I'll get. Ed is that the NEI #69 bullet pictured? If so is the nose tapered? Besides the RCBS 165 sil, that just by chance must have fit really well in a gun I had, for some reason known only to God and Harry Pope I've never had much luck with bore ride bullets.

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onondaga posted this 21 July 2018

Gary do you have first hand experience using 4895 in the 06 with PB bullets or a place to point me where I can read of others experiences? I'm looking for things that have a good chance of panning out. 4895 is a great powder but I don't know if it's the best choice here.
Pat,
Yes, you will find references to my rolls with H4895 on the CBA forum. The 30-06 likes heavy for caliber cast bullets regardless of barrel twist. The easiest bullet to get shooting very well for the 30-06 is the Lee C312-185-1R, it is big enough to size to an ink checked slide fit for any 30-06. I shoot this Lee 185 gr cast in Lyman #2, sized checked .3115" to slide fit my rifle chamber at 2050 fps with 34 gr H4895 from a 1903A3 that is in spectacular condition that I bought with an unfired 24"1942 barrel. The load consistently groups 5 shots under 1" @ 50 yards benched with Mil sights. I Deer hunt with this bullet hollow-pointed with the large Forster HP bit and a drill press on loaded ammo. POI does not change between round nose or HP'd .
Less than a slide fit of cast bullets subtracts accuracy potential. Get that verified fit FIRST whatever bullet you choose before you experiment with any charges..
Gary

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pat i. posted this 21 July 2018

Gary I'm looking for powders for plain base bullets to shoot at 100 and 200 yards in CBA registered matches. At least that's my plan. 2000 fps loads and gas checked bullets aren't on the table.

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joeb33050 posted this 21 July 2018

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pat i. posted this 21 July 2018

Thanks Joe but I have that bullet and never had any luck with it.

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Ed Harris posted this 21 July 2018

I never had any luck with it either.

This is what I am using in most of my plain-based .30 cal. loads now, fit in Winchester 94 .30-30 factory chamber.

Not engraved quite as heavily in .30-'06 with longer throat, but still marked. Load 6 grains of Bullseye.

 

Ed Harris Design for .30-30 - plain based version

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 21 July 2018

I want to thank you guys for the replies. Blue Dot I have. WST I'll get. Ed is that the NEI #69 bullet pictured? If so is the nose tapered? Besides the RCBS 165 sil, that just by chance must have fit really well in a gun I had, for some reason known only to God and Harry Pope I've never had much luck with bore ride bullets.
Old Walt Melander NEI #69 has tapered nose, but NEI no longer in business and after Walt died the quality went to garbage.  For a new plainbased mold see Accurate 31-155D.  Also available in GCEd Harris design for 30-30 Win. 171 grain GC

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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onondaga posted this 21 July 2018

Pat I,

Ed's 31-155D picture shows a good example of the slide fit I mention. That is a nicely fitting to his rifle bullet that will have a stable start due to the fit. Cast bullets that fit will need 1 to 2 pounds more push to chamber than jacketed bullets because of their correct fit and because of the way correct fit causes cast bullets to be burnished on the way into the chamber. Any less fit subtracts accuracy potential. My Lee 185 fits my 03A3 30-06  that well just forward of the case mouth in the chamber and I wouldn't bother to shoot it if it didn't. My bullet also allows the ogive to engage the leade.010" and that enhances stability of fit too.

The taper of the leade contact that Ed's bullet shows is great. Mine show good a contacting slide fit on the first exposed driving band. Both Ed and I achieve a stable start with a contacting bullet fit. Not getting that good of a fit causes many to give up on cast bullets because without that fit your bullets will wobble down the bore and shoot all over the place.

A:though Ed's approach to his fit is different than mine because his bullet design is different, we both achieve the same thing...a verified contacting slide fit on chambering that stabilizes the bullet in the chamber.

My bullets are well marked if I unchamber them. NOTE: an inked bullet on a dummy round is the best way to verify this fit and a fresh inked bullet is only good for a single chamber/unchamber test.

Don't float around with different theories, get a checked fit before you use any powder or you are wasting your time.

 

Gary

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Scearcy posted this 21 July 2018

The NOE 311291 PB clone works well. Just size the first band (nose first) enough to get proper fit in the throat. Tumble lube and shoot.

Jim

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pat i. posted this 21 July 2018

Ed that's a nice bullet and I like the dimensions. I'm having this one cut now. Only change is the front band will be .307. It's big brother the 31-200s I was playing with engraved down to the 3rd band using WWs. I'm gonna put that bullet of yours in my files for future use. Might even bump it up to use in my 38-55 down the road.

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shastaboat posted this 23 July 2018

With 175-180 range bullets I have always had good results with 20-24 gr of 2400 from 1800-2200 fps.

Because I said so!

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delmarskid posted this 23 July 2018

That looks like a good bullet. Looks pretty slippery for a cast bullet too. Like those radiused lube grooves.

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pat i. posted this 24 July 2018

Dane if you're talking to me that picture sure stretched out the print for some reason. In hindsight I probably should have made it smaller up front but I'll just run it into a taper die if it seats too deep. I got the mold today and picked up some WST at Bass Pro Shop. Man powder sure went up since the last time I bought a pound. I'm sure it doesn't help with BPS's inflated prices. Luckily I had some Cabela bucks so didn't have to pay thank God.

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pat i. posted this 24 July 2018

Shastaboat this is a plain base so your load is too much for my liking.

Because I said so too!!! ☺

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