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shake posted this 26 May 2017

Looking at back issues of "The Fouling Shot" specifically match results for plain base bullets I noticed that most of the calibers used are old, obscure, obsolete. I am not trying to denigrate these calibers I am trying to understand why they are used. I just noticed that my description of plain base calibers, old, obscure, obsolete sounds like a pretty good description of me.

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Brodie posted this 27 May 2017

Shake;

Plain base cast bullets usually are use with small charges of pistol or shot gun powders.  Virtually all of the "obsolete" calibers are of smaller capacity.  This goes hand in hand with small charges of powder and cuts down on position sensitivity.  While the charges of powder are proportional to the size of the case most "modern" cases are much larger than necessary.  Why not just use a case that was designed to be used with small charges of powder and a plain base bullet?  PB bullets aren't good for more than about 1500fps anyway, above that speed they lead like crazy. 

I hope this answers your question.

Brodie

t

B.E.Brickey

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shake posted this 27 May 2017

Good answer, thanks. Does a rim and a straight or slightly tapered case add to plain base accuracy?

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Ed Harris posted this 27 May 2017

The rimmed case makes it easier to maintain consistent headspace when brass is reloaded repeatedly.

With rimless cases which headspace on the shoulder, using very light loads the primer blast can shove the case forward and set the shoulder back because chamber pressure is inadequate for the case body to grasp the chamber walls.  As the head-to-shoulder distance is reduced in repeated reloads, light strikes can occur, causing increased velocity variation, and in extreme cases misfires can occur.

In my gallery .30-'06 plainbased loads I use a segregated batch of brass which has the flash holes enlarged to about 0.10 with a No.40 or 2.5mm drill bit.  Normal size for large rifle cases is 0.078-.082" 

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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shake posted this 27 May 2017

Thanks for another informative answer. One last question, is there a perfect or close to perfect plain base bullet case?

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Ed Harris posted this 27 May 2017

You will get about as many different answers as responders to that question.  I believe that many people who shoot the plainbase matches own heirloom antique rifles and are already involved in the ASSRA Scheutzen events and wish to compete with the toys they own.  A noble endeavor.

My own feeling is that a rimmed case that is plentiful, in current production, and of common, standard caliber is best. You don't need an antique or special optimized wildcat cartridge.

Indeed, I was not the recipient of fine old single-shots, but wanted several, so had my own purpose-built because I could not find what I wanted.  Later I got lucky and found several lovely old English rook and rabbit rifles which I had restored and I kept one I had relined to .32 S&W Long and gifted the other, a .360 No. 5 rechambered to .38 Special Wadcutter to a friend.

I had built several single-shot rifles using small pre-WW2 H&R .410 and 28-ga. frames, in a variety of calibers. Because these are not particularly strong actions I shoot only plainbased cast bullets in standard pistol calibers and currently have several rifles each in .32 S&W Long, .38 Special, .44-40, and .45 Colt. I have two modern .44 Magnum single-shots, one on H&R SB2 frame, and the other on a Beretta 412.

These ALL work for recreational and hunting purposes. All except for the modern SB2 are light-weight woods and walking rifles, not shot in matches.  With iron sights the prewar H&R .44/410 frames in .32 S&W Long and .44-40s weigh only 4 pounds, the similar era 28-ga.frame .38 Special and .45 Colt rifles 5 pounds.  The Beretta 412 .44 Magnum with 28" tapered barrel weighs only 6 pounds and carries like a somewhat heavy, but balanced fly rod.

The modern H&R SB2 with 20" bull barrel was 7-1/2 pounds, too chunky and heavy to carry around in the woods all day, so I sold it.   

My preferred walking guns are all LIGHT.  

The 4-pound .44-40 is my favorite with either bullet, round ball or shot, black or smokeless, doesn't care!

Any of these will shoot 3-inch, ten-shot, 100-yard groups with my cast bullet loads and iron sights.  Maybe not competition quality, but they ring the gong consistently, are fun to shoot and bring home lots of game during the appropriate season. Best of all they don't beat you to death, except for the folding action  Beretta .44 Magnum when shooting full loads! That's what the leather covered recoil pad is for.

I like to use a bullet which is somewhat heavy for the caliber, using soft alloy, typically 8-10 BHN tin-lead, with a caseful of powder which produces the desired velocity with safe pressures using a slightly compressed charge of powder and which provides base support for the bullet so that it may be firmly pressed against the origin of rifling upon breech closure, without the bullet telescoping back into the case.

In the .32 S&W Long I use a Accurate 31-155D with a case full of 4198 or RL7 in a ten-inch twist barrel.

In the .38 Special I use Accurate 36-245D with a case full of 4198 or RL7 in a 16-inch twist barrel

In the .44-40 I use a Accurate 43-230G or 433-230EB and a case full of 4198, RL7 or 3Fg Goex in a 36-inch twist barrel.

In the .44 Magnum I use Accurate 43-230EB or 43-260C and a case full of 4198 or 3Fg Goex in a 20-inch twist barrel.

In the .45 Colt I use Accurate 45-259EB or 45-290H and a case full of 4198 or 3Fg Goex in a 20-inch twist barrel.  

Perhaps you recognize a "formula" here...  John Taylor built them all for me over about a 10-year period. 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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rhbrink posted this 28 May 2017

Most of the modern plain base cartridges are based on the 357 Max case necked down to 32 caliber there are a bunch of variations of this case and while the 357 Mag can be used but the Max case is stronger. And then there is the grand old 32-40 which can be made from the 38-55 case that is available from Starline and sometimes Winchester.

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