The worst bullet that I want to like

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  • Last Post 25 September 2018
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onondaga posted this 23 September 2018

The Lee 50 cal ML target shooting bullet, the  Lee 500-354M is an odd bird. Look at it:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010208130/lee-1-cavity-modern-minie-ball-bullet-mold-500-354m-500-diameter-354-grain

I want to use these for BEAR! but of my 4-50 cal  ML rifles only my kit built Traditions flintlock Mountain Rifle  with a 1:48 twist groups them near well enough. I cast this bullet in pure lead per Lee instructions and they drop 357 gr at .503" for me. They have a very flat nose, many micro grooves the full body length that holds tumble lube well and a thick skirted base.

Between the high weight and the flat nose design, I want to kill BEAR with these.

I don't do anything special with these bullets. They thumb start easily.  I have tried charges from 70 to 90 gr with BMZ, other subs and genuine BP. They all shoot the same and the best I can shoot this bullet is 1.3" @ 50 yards for 5 shots with 80 gr BMZ and a pan prime of genuine 4F BP. I prefer my ML hunting rifles to shoot 1" at 50 yards to call them accurate for BEAR hunting and the Modern Minnie falls short for me.

I really like the bullet and wonder if anybody else does better with them? I shoot them offhand with a TriggerStick monopod as I do when I hunt. I don't bench rest shoot these at all.

I only use tumble lube on these, either Lee LLA or Whites 45:45:10. I seat them firmly at 80 pounds practiced with a scale. Man I wish they grouped better, but they sure make nice paper punched holes in paper like a good wad cutter bullet.

Have you tried these, how do they shoot for you?

Gary

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onondaga posted this 23 September 2018

The worst complaint I've read about the Lee 500-354M online is that they may slip down the bore when you tip your muzzle down. I called flagrant operator error and poor loading method when I read that. Cast in pure lead, per Lee, their Modern Minnies are soft. I could see this problem happening if you cast them with an alloy harder than pure lead. My practiced 80 pound bullet seating effort using an analog bathroom scale under the rifle butt at the range is enough force to bell the hollow base hard onto the powder and make the soft skirt press hard outwardly to the bore. I have never had or expected them to slip down the bore when loaded as I do. I swear I can feel the skirt flair with an 80 pound push. Incidentally, to get the scale to show 80 pounds, I have to lean toward it and grip squeeze hard pushing on the ramrod.

Gary

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Ross Smith posted this 23 September 2018

I use bp only and would not use modern lubes. Have you tried any bp lubes? Like bore butter or spg????

Also, 1;48 is a round ball twist, a little fast for a fifty, but slow for a slug. I'd try a grease type lube.

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onondaga posted this 23 September 2018

Ross, I have tried BoreButter with no improvement over tumble lubes, I have even tried both together! I can easily tumble lube 500 bullets in one minute and they stay lubed forever. My fouling with BMZ is negligible with either lube too. Thanks for the suggestion.

Gary

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Ross Smith posted this 23 September 2018

Well lube and fouling aren't the problem then. Have you tried other slugs?

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onondaga posted this 23 September 2018

Ross,

The Lee REAL 250 gr shoots under 1" @ 50 yards for me and that is my Deer load for the same flintlock rifle. That 250 gr matches the 1:48 very well. It is not heavy enough for the big Bear here,  I realize the heavier 500-354M Modern Minnie isn't matched as well to my 1:48, but this not a target shooter for me, it is for BEAR. I'd love to get this bullet to shoot 1" for me, so far, not. 1.3" at best. I have percussion rifles that shoot the heavy 320 gr REAL well but I want a flintlock massacred Bear and may have to settle on the 500-354M because the heavy 320 gr REAL at it's best, shoots worse out of this flintlock than the Modern Minnie.

I'm open to suggestions for next year, the other bullet I tried was worse at any charge, it was the standard standard Minnie,  the Lee 500-360M. I have also tried smooth and ribbed sabots with a variety of bullets cast, plated and jacketed, all stinkers in this rifle compared to the REAL 250. I'd like a heavier bullet to shoot as well as the REAL 250 does in this rifle.

Gary

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Ross Smith posted this 25 September 2018

Lot's of people shot TC maxi-slugs in 1:48 tc"s

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onondaga posted this 25 September 2018

The 370 gr LFN,  TC Original MaxiBall would fit the bill if it shoots well in my rocklock. Thanks, I'd like to try it but would also rather cast my own. I may get some, they aren't expensive and I could try them with my veggie wads and BMZ if they don't shoot well bare. Plus, that bullet is even uglier than the 320 gr REAL applause

Gary

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