TT33 7.62x25mm, who has one, what are you loading for it?

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  • Last Post 29 May 2017
Ed Harris posted this 28 April 2017

In FS 214-11 I described my experience firing a surplus Czech Cz52 in 7.62x25mm

I decided that to complete my "education" I should fool with the Tokarev pistol also. 

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A charge of 5 grains of Bullseye was recommended by Hatcher for the 7.63 (.30) Mauser and is also listed by Lyman.  That starting load was not enough to cycle my Cz52, but 5.3 grains of Bullseye measured by RCBS Little Dandy Rotor #10 cycled reliably when loading the Accurate 31-087T.

Based on successful experience in the .32 ACP my plan is to try Olin AutoComp in loading the 7.62x25, by using the same RCBS Little Dandy measure rotor which meters a safe, well-proven load with Bullseye, simply filling the measure with AutoComp, firing test charges in the Cz52. 

I plan to use the 31-087T bullet which has been successful in my .32 ACPs, but have also ordered an Accurate 31-087B with band diameters reduced to .310" which should work as-cast and unsized.

”

If you are loading for the 7.62x25mm, what are YOU shooting?

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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David Reiss posted this 28 April 2017

While nearly the same as the ,30 Mauser as you well know, the 7.62x25 in most military loadings is hotter. My only experience with the .30 Mauser started a couple years ago with my Astra 900, the very well made copy of the C96 Mauser. I will look at my notes to see what my loads were and list them in another post. I did not get very far with the project, but have since acquired a Ideal/Lyman molds 308227, 311252 & 311245 and will try some loadings with them. 

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
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4570sharps posted this 28 April 2017

4 grains of Bullseye and the same bullet works good in my M 57.

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frnkeore posted this 28 April 2017

The TT33, in my opinion is a much better pistol. It's a 1911 type and much stronger than the roller locked CZ. I have the 54-1, Norinco variant of it. 

I bought mine in 2002. I wanted one, because of a 1950's AR, article that I read. In it, they discussed the then current military pistols (9mm, 45ACP & 7.62x25) and ran accuracy and penetration tests. The TT33 was second in slow fire but, first in rapid fire and was the only one to penatrate the GI steel helmet.

My most accurate load was 11.5 gr of WC820. It gave 1408 fps average velocity, 8 fps SD & 31fps ES, using the M1 Carbines 110 gr, SP. 12.0 gr gave 1470 fps and you can get more out of the TT33 type.

I never tried cast in mine but, I think the 311316 might do well in it or the 311008 for PB.

In some places, you see it written that the CZ is stronger but, do not believe that! I have a long article on actual testing of the two. They tested to failure of the pistols. The CZ failed where the roller cuts are in the barrel (it's very thin there) and the barrel spit. The TT33 never failed but, the primer pocket, opened so large, that gases took out the trigger mechanism. They replaced that and went right on testing.

I made the mount for my pistol but, I believe a 1911 mount can be used on one. I think there is only .005 difference in the width.

BTW, the sights SUCK for older eyes!!!

Frank

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Ed Harris posted this 28 April 2017

All good info.  One of the things I do want to determine with the TOK is how light you can go and still have the gun function, without kicking the brass over the mountain.  The 4 grain Bullseye benchmark from 4570Sharps is therefore very helpful.

My plan also is to have a bolt-action rifle built to fool with this cartridge.  I picked up a Remington 722 in .222 Remington off GunBroker which should be a good starting point.  Have ordered a PTG reamer in 7.62x25 CIP and Go headspace gage, John Taylor will be fitting a .310 groove, chrome-moly 10" twist barrel about 20 inches long, with integral base for M14 front sight machined into the muzzle, threaded for "can" with thread protector installed and Lyman 57 peep on it as backup to the B&L 4X scope.  I don't see this as a 200 yard gun by any means, but more as a rimless .32-20 equivalent. 

No current plans to buy a can, but if they are de-regulated I want the rifle ready to roll with that option.

”

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 28 April 2017

geeeze ed::  remmy 722 with classic b&l  4x ...  deep breath here :   i may swoon ...

ken

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Ed Harris posted this 29 April 2017

Ken,

What is your experience with the B&L scope and mount.  I take it you think worth keeping?

”

”

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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JeffinNZ posted this 29 April 2017

Just as an aside Ed, in the late 80's and early 90's in NZ when surplus COMBLOC ammo was appearing I saw a few Lee Enfeilds chambered for the 7.62X25.  The chamber of the barrel was shortened and reamed and a cut down AK mag made as an insert.  Worked great.

Cheers from New Zealand

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 29 April 2017

hi ed .. re:  b&l classic ... yep, keep anything that reminds me of the USA back when we were ... uh ... a better nation ..

if the scope isn't glazed, it is still about 90 per cent as visually as good as a new leupold... burris ...deer scope.  and very unlikely to adjust itself between shots ( g ) .

the mounts are quite sturdy but are a little vague compared to modern * micro-trac * dials.  best way to adjust is to do the ” move crosshairs to the bullet hole ” technique.

i suppose the b&l setup is something like an old favorite dog that hunts a little slower  ...  just hate to let them go ...

ken

..... a win. 54 i bot once came with a 4x b&l in those mounts.  just right somehow.  wish it could talk .

ken

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4570sharps posted this 01 May 2017

Neat old scope and mount!

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Ed Harris posted this 01 May 2017

Experimenting with the extra TT33 barrel I have, looking to see how heavy and how long a bullet could be forced into the rifling by hand with a boltgun.

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Accurate 31-155D when heavily crimped into the lube groove, to prevent the bullet telescoping into the case, engraves on the nose about like similar seating does in .30-'06 in my Winchester 54.  

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The M80 bullet can be single-loaded into the TT pistol and the slide closes and locks without resistance.  Of course loaded rounds cannot be extracted without disassembling the pistol, but I plan to try a few single-loaded in the TT to check velocity and inspect empties for pressure signs with 10 grs. of Alliant #2400, which fills the case nicely. Objective here would be to find a mild, accurate, subsonic suppressed rifle round.

”

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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RicinYakima posted this 01 May 2017

Watching this closely Ed, as I always wanted a carbine in 30 Mauser.

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Ed Harris posted this 26 May 2017

As FYI, new to the Accurate catalog is 31-100T.  I had Tom lengthen the nose of his 31-087B and tweak to fit my 1978 year of production Ruger Blackhawk in .30 M1 Carbine, which has .310 cylinder throats.  

Bands are .312 because I wanted to use this bullet as-cast in the .32 S&W Long and have a standard weight bullet of traditional profile similar to the .32 Colt New Police, which this bullet does in the same manner that 36-151H does for the .38 S&W and .38 Special to resemble the old .38 Colt New Police and .38 Colt Special.

The profile is also a very good fit in the 7.62x25 case, as the short 0.2" shank does not protrude below the shoulder, the .310 parallel nose north of the crimp groove with tolerance negative fits the CIP throat and its .355" nose length fits nicely in both the TT33 and CZ52 magazines.

I will be testing this bullet in the TT33 alongside the .30 Carbine Ruger and a USGI Inland (real WW2-era, not modern remake) M1 Carbine.   I believe this will make a great general-purpose light .30 and .32 revolver bullet.

Stay tuned...

Accurate 31-100T for .30 Carbine and 7.62x25

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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aka Carbine Dave posted this 29 May 2017

I remember reading that jd Jones worked up a .30 mauser whisper load. Should be in cartridges of .the world. Might be useful info. Also he had one worked up in .30 Luger case.often wondered if that would be fun in a smallish falling block carbine.

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aka Carbine Dave posted this 29 May 2017

Also had a friend who bought one of those norinco super .38 conversion kits. I seem to remember it as rough and tuff with +p .38 super like a.really loud small flame thrower with a mules kick.

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