vaquero accuracy

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Last Post 13 June 2020

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sergeant69 posted this 09 June 2020

last year i picked up a 1994 old model vaquero in 45 colt. 8 gr 231 under a 250 gr JHP at 40 ft off bench gave me a fair group (3") but trigger guard slams my middle finger knuckle and besides i wanna shoot cast. 6.5 unique under 255 gr FP lee mold shoots low (2") and left (3"). weight lifting glove fixed knuckle busting. cyl throats were off so i got dave mansons tools and corrected that and reamed bbl throat. now when i shoot it, it groups 3'' left aiming at bullesye (not 6 oclock) and elevation is dead on. buddy shooting it at same time hits 4' low and windage perfect. we both do this consistently. we have even loaded cyl for the other guy and left 2 out to see if we flinched. nope. hes left handed i'm right handed. have cast some 325 gr GC over 6.5 unique to see if anything changes. BHN on a saeco hardness tester is 8. i also have a bisley 45 colt gonna get serious with too very soon. the vaquero was virtually unfired when i picked it up. any ideas?? thanks

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Little Debbie posted this 09 June 2020

Windage with fixed sight revolvers can be tricky to fix. Experimenting with loads can sometimes get the point of impact you are looking for. I’ve always had more elevation than windage issues and that is fairly easy to adjust a load to get proper elevation. Stay with one bullet , primer, and powder. adjust your amount of powder to see what changes give you I’ve found it takes about half a grain to make a difference. Bullets can help, heavier bullets generally hit higher at 25 to 75 feet (longer bore time as revolvers recoil). Last resort for windage is filing one side of the rear sight groove in the direction you want your POI to move or bending your front sight. Don’t laugh or groan, I have a Colt New Service in .38-40 that had the front sight bent to the right at some point in its life. It needs it to hit center at 25 yards! Finding a .38/40 load that shoots to the sights in the New Service and a M92 Winchester was a bit of work but worth it. All part of the fun.

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sergeant69 posted this 09 June 2020

with the 250 gr i have gone from 8.5 uniq to now 6.5 uniq. my hand simply won't take the added pounding w/out keeping me up at night. anything 7 gr and up made a diff at the 120 yd gongs elevation wise. will maybe try the 325 gr later in week.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 09 June 2020

on the vaquero sounds like bending the top about 0.020 on the front sight would get you real close. wouldn't even look crooked, and used to be done as a practical matter. yep, might have to grit your teeth.

make sure you bend it the correct way ... ( g ) .

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cfp4570 posted this 09 June 2020

I had a Vaquero over a decade ago that shot to the left or right, I can't remember which, but what Ken says is absolutely true. I very carefully bent the front sight a tiny amount and it fixed it. You had to look really hard to see it. Finally got a .45 Bisley convertible and sold the Vaquero to my buddy who wanted it worse than I did.

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sergeant69 posted this 09 June 2020

you guys are scaring me! bending a front sight? i can see MOVING it to the left but bending it? how? with pliers?

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Bud Hyett posted this 09 June 2020

My loading for the .45 Colt is for plinking and for the Elmer Keith Memorial Match which is long range pistol limited to iron sights. Maybe I am slightly dedicated to tradition, but I feel Elmer would approve of this choice over some people shooting the bigger magnums. With several .45 Colt revolvers, over the last four decades I've sorted the loads as follows:

6.5 grains Unique, 200 grain H&G #68 SWC, wheelweight alloy - Colt 2nd Generation SAA, Colt New Service, Uberti Schofield
8.5 grains Unique, 230 grain RCBS 45-230-RN, wheelweight alloy - S&W 625, S&W 25-5, S&W 25-7
9.3 grains Unique, 200 grain H&G RCBS 45-230-RN, wheelweight alloy - Ruger Black Hawk, Ruger Black Hawk Bisley, Colt Anaconda (future)

At Match Testing:

The round-nose style bullet scores far better beyond fifty yards, the targets start at 140 yard.
I showed up at my second match early for the sight-in day with several loads including SWC bullets and quickly went to the RCBS 45-230-RN based on results.
A fellow shooter was all over the impact area with his SWC loads, borrowed my RCBS loads and then beat me.
Developed a decided prejudice there and then.

Then reading the results of C E Harris on his testing, I tried the SAECO 954 mold and am switching the bullets in the above loads to that bullet. This simplifies reloading and record keeping.

Back to the sighting question, these loads work for windage on the knife blade and gutter pistols. Maybe I am lucky. Elevation is a problem and most require a modified six o'clock hold since the load strikes high. The biggest question was the New Service as I do not want to make any alterations to anything on it.

All the other revolvers have adjustable sight that require a little adjustment.

Elmer Keith Shoot

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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Ed Harris posted this 09 June 2020

In the great majority of .45 Colt Revolvers 6.5 grains of Bullseye with a 230 to 260 grain bullet which fits the cylinder throats is a "sweet" spot. Never found a revolver which didn't group with it. Saeco #954 (230-gr.) and #955 (260-grain) are great for the older Colts and clones such as Pietta, having short cylinders. I worked work Tom Ellis at Accurate to produce 45-240H1, 45-262H and 45-290H with long nose to fit Rugers with longer cylinders and H&R Handi Rifles to reduce jump. Larry Gibson pressure tested the loads which are posted elsewhere on the forum.

But in older Colt SAs and New Service 6 to 6.5 grains of Bullseye works. In the Rugers and post-1920 Colt New Service up to 7.5 grains is a stout hunting load which is a stone killer with the Accurate bullets from 240-290 grains.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Boschloper posted this 10 June 2020

I have a .44 mag Vaquero of about the same vintage. When I settled on a load, it shot low and left. I screwed the barrel in just a bit (moving the front sight to the left), and filed a little off the top to bring the elevation in. Did the same with a Speed Six. I also have a "Baby Vaquero" Single Six in .32 mag. It shot low so all that was required was a little off the front sight.

After I did all this, I read on a Cowboy Action site that if you send the gun and the loads you are shooting in to Ruger, they will regulate the gun to the load for you. I have not verified this.

I sure do appreciate guns with adjustable sights.

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creeker posted this 10 June 2020

but trigger guard slams my middle finger knuckle

I cured this problem by curling my little finger under the grip frame. Felt like a completely different sixgun.

Lynn Halstead

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sergeant69 posted this 10 June 2020

I have a .44 mag Vaquero of about the same vintage. When I settled on a load, it shot low and left. I screwed the barrel in just a bit (moving the front sight to the left), and filed a little off the top to bring the elevation in. Did the same with a Speed Six. I also have a "Baby Vaquero" Single Six in .32 mag. It shot low so all that was required was a little off the front sight.

After I did all this, I read on a Cowboy Action site that if you send the gun and the loads you are shooting in to Ruger, they will regulate the gun to the load for you. I have not verified this.

I sure do appreciate guns with adjustable sights.

ok. how did you screw the bbls in more? removing the cyl and twisting the frame clockwise or?

i also cannot verify this, but i have heard/read that if you sent almost any gun back to any mfg and admit it has shot reloads they will refuse to honor the warranty, claiming the reloads caused the problem regardless of what it is. having said that, my shooting buddy claims that in the 80s he and a friend we shooting a redhawk and blew the cly up and bent the frame and sent it back to ruger and they replaced the gun and informed him that the 3 remaining loads were pulled and all 3 had double charges.

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sergeant69 posted this 10 June 2020

In the great majority of .45 Colt Revolvers 6.5 grains of Bullseye with a 230 to 260 grain bullet which fits the cylinder throats is a "sweet" spot. Never found a revolver which didn't group with it. Saeco #954 (230-gr.) and #955 (260-grain) are great for the older Colts and clones such as Pietta, having short cylinders. I worked work Tom Ellis at Accurate to produce 45-240H1, 45-262H and 45-290H with long nose to fit Rugers with longer cylinders and H&R Handi Rifles to reduce jump. Larry Gibson pressure tested the loads which are posted elsewhere on the forum.

But in older Colt SAs and New Service 6 to 6.5 grains of Bullseye works. In the Rugers and post-1920 Colt New Service up to 7.5 grains is a stout hunting load which is a stone killer with the Accurate bullets from 240-290 grains.

i don't know on a scale of 1-10 how much diff the longer nose makes (i'm sure you do) in my rugers but maybe i need to get one?

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sergeant69 posted this 10 June 2020

also, i have labelled on the handles, 45 colt 335 gr GC, i think, as is very faded. BUT, the mold says LYMAN, 452650EX then below it 3531. i can't find this mold on lymans site and when i google it nothing comes up. now i'm hesitant to shoot the 200 or so i have loaded for the rugers. anyone know what it is? thanks

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Tom Acheson posted this 10 June 2020

My Vaquero is a very early one, maybe the first year of production. It has the 7 1/2” barrel, chambered in .45 Colt. I also had a Colt in .45 Colt that was bought from Doug Turnbull. That particular gun gets an A+ for the fabulous Turnbull color case finish but an F for accuracy. The Ruger outshot it all day long. I sold that Turnbull revolver 2-years ago. The color case finish on the Ruger has faded a bit but it does shoot.

All of the “usual suspect” powders were played with in the Vaquero. For some reason the last time I reloaded for it (2012) I used 7.1-grains of Tite Group. Probably because at the time I probably had a bunch of that powder.

I’m trying to sell that gun along with the excellent Redding dies for it. If I were to keep loading for it, I’d take a look at WST, since that powder works well in my two 45 Auto Rim revolvers. But overall I agree that Unique and Bullseye are the place to start in loading for the .45 Colt round.

Be careful to avoid overly hard bullets and be sure to know the diameter of the exit holes in the cylinder as you size your bullets. Not all revolvers are created equal.

Tom

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Boschloper posted this 11 June 2020

To screw a barrel in to adjust the sight take the cylinder out, clamp the barrel in a vise, stick along handle in the cylinder hole and turn it. Every thing has to be non-maring and you have to clamp the barrel tight. I used hardwood blocks with a groove that matched the barrel with a little pine pitch smeared on it. For the "wrench", I used a 2X4 about 4 ft. long cut on one end to fit in the cylinder.

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sergeant69 posted this 12 June 2020

i guess if that don't do it nothing will!

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Larry Gibson posted this 12 June 2020

"I have a .44 mag Vaquero of about the same vintage. When I settled on a load, it shot low and left. I screwed the barrel in just a bit (moving the front sight to the left), and filed a little off the top to bring the elevation in."

Exactly what I've done with several fixed sited revolvers over the years. It's what I did with my OM Vaquero 44-40 with 7 1/2" barrel. I use a sharp #2 pencil to make a reference mark on the frame and barrel. Have found that turning the barrel in 1/2 width of that pencil mark usually does the trick.

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

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Ed Harris posted this 13 June 2020

On my .44-40 Vaquero I found the cylinder throats tight at .426", whereas the barrel groove diameter was .429".

The chamber necks were also tight at .444" so that I wasn't able to chamber rounds assembled in Starline brass having .430" bullets appropriate for the .429 barrel, even if I had the cylinder throats opened up.

So, I sent the cylinder to John Taylor. He rechambered it with his .44-40 rifle reamer which produced .447" chamber necks and eased the transition from neck diameter to cylinder throats with a 6-degree included angle and uniformed the cylinder throats to .4305", exactly the same as a Bowen cylinder blank he had fitted and chambered for my Ruger Super Blackhawk. BOTH revolvers now shoot like rifles. It is great fun to ring a 12-inch gong at 100 yards with either black powder or smokeless loads!

Accurate 43-206H is the bullet of choice. I shoot 6 grains of Bullseye in my 1905 Colt Frontier Six Shooter and 1920 Colt New Service and 7.2 grains in the S&W 544 Texas Wagon Train, Ruger Vaquero, Ruger Super Blackhawk, Marlin 1894 and Spanish El Tigre.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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BigMan54 posted this 13 June 2020

I guess I'm luckier then most.

I bought 2 "55-XXXXX" STS .45Colt's with 7 1/2" bbl's used from 2 different Cowboy Shooters. Both had been worked over and had their front sights filed down a bit too. In 1996 & 1997.

I never shot either gun on paper. But both would hit little 4" gongs at 50ft which was good enough for Cowboy Shooting.

In 1997, I had started working at B&B Sales ( North Hollywood Bank Shootout ). Wed night after closing the Guys went to a 75ft indoor range. After burning up all my HBWC ammo in my K-38, I found out it was time to shoot for the money $20 each, a tennis ball on a string. I was looking at all the great target guns the Guys brought out.

Les Baur, Swenson Hi-Power, Python, etc. I figured I'd just kissed $20 good-bye.

Well, I was shooting My Cowboy Load: 5grs Clays under a 230gr TC-Bear Creek bullet (.452).

Aimed dead nuts and squeezed off.

BOY HOWDY!!!!! , I hit the tennis ball !!! Guys were shocked ! Managed to control myself and not let on that I was more shocked then they were.

Well, Everybody dropped out after the 5th round. And stood around waiting for my 6th shot. I DID IT !!!

I stood there watching those 5 guys lay $20 bills in my hand, I figured to spend it all on Bear Creek .452 230gr TC bullets.

Never figured I'd find another Ruger SA that was as accurate as my 1974 vintage .357 Blackhawk. Didn't even think I could still shoot a SA that accurately anymore.

Still haven't slugged the bore or measured chamber throats, on either Vaquero. The other one groups into 2-3" at 25yrds.

The New Vaquero I bought in 2005 doesn't even come close. The bore slugs .454, chamber mouths run .451-454, I just accept the 3"+ accuracy. Lousiest shooting Ruger I own.

In My youth, on a good day the .357 would put 6rds on top of one another. The .45Colt, 6rds into sub 2".

Both the SBH's would shoot close to 2".

All shooting was done at 25yrds standing up with a 2 hand hold.

Geez, do I wish I could see well enough to see to shoot that well. Much less hold steady enough to do it.

Yeah, Ruger SA's can be accurate.

Out of the 14-15 CF Ruger SA's I 've owned, all have been capable of sub 2 1/2" groups if I did my part.

Except that one New Vaquero.

And Yep, I curl my little finger under the bottom of the grip. How else would you hold a Single Action ?

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun. Did I mention how much I HATE auto-correct on this blasted tablet.

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