Who Shoots 7.62x54R?

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  • Last Post 03 September 2018
Ed Harris posted this 22 August 2018

Assembled dummy round with my new Accurate 31-215BB bullet for the .303 British in 7.62x54 nny Yugo brass to see if the .316 bullet would chamber in my Finn M39.  It does, with no resistance, but distinct light marking on the throat and forepart.  Need to load some to try!  Plan is to try ten-shot samples about 20 grs. with 4227, 4198, 4064 and proceed from there. 

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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RicinYakima posted this 22 August 2018

Hummm. I can not get Lapua brass with a 0.312" bullet to chamber in my 28/30 as the case neck is then too big. But the chamber is snug in all other dimensions also.

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Ed Harris posted this 22 August 2018

My 28/30 is likewise, tight.

But the M39 is "fat" and needs a larger bullet to fit.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Bohica793 posted this 22 August 2018

I feed my 91/30 a diet of Accurate 31-200R sized .314 on top of 22g of IMR-4198.  I can't see through iron sights worth a flip and I want your scope setup.

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fa38 posted this 23 August 2018

That is one heck of a scope mount.

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Ed Harris posted this 23 August 2018

Yup!

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Larry Gibson posted this 23 August 2018

I've been shooting the 7.62x54R since the mid '60s, cast in the cartridge since the mid '70s.  In CBA Military Rifle Matches (Phoenix, AZ) I've been shooting my SAKO built Finn M39. It is quite accurate with the 314299 (either Lyman or NOE) cast of #2 Alloy.  I load the weight selected bullets in Norma cases over 28.5 gr 4895 and use a Dacron filler.  I have won numerous matches with this combination.

I also shoot Accurate's 31-215-FN, Lee's C312-185-1R and a group by Lee mould C314-291 all of which shoot very well.

 I have an Ishvesk(SP?) arsenal made M28/30 sniper with the 3.5X PU scope.  It also is very accurate with cast.

 

Additionally I have 2 MNs I brought back from the war games in SEA.  A M28 (rebuilt on M91 Hex action) and a Chinese Type 53. The previous owners were somewhat reluctant to give them up but I drove a hard bargain.......   I occasionally shoot them, mostly with the Lee C312-291 in Bulgarian cases with the primer pockets converted to SR primers.

LMG

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Concealment is not cover.........

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LIMPINGJ posted this 25 August 2018

Larry what scope mount are you using on that m39?

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Larry Gibson posted this 26 August 2018

 LIMPINGJ

I used an ATI base which I modified.  The mount requires 2 holes be D&T'd in the front receiver ring.  I added a 3rd screw which holds the base rock solid on the front receiver ring.  I also cut a bit off the back end so the issue sniper bolt handle would clear it.  The rings are old Redfields which also are adjustable for windage. 

 

 

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

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Larry Gibson posted this 26 August 2018

I think I also had to cut a new slot for the rear ring.

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

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Ed Harris posted this 26 August 2018

Larry,

Is Accurate's 31-215B your original design?

Perfect fit in my M39, when cut to .316, if so, very nicely done and Bravo Zulu!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Larry Gibson posted this 26 August 2018

No, the Accurate 31-215 was designed by "tommeboy".  Not sure he is a member here but he frequents CBF and the goodsteel forum.  It is a good heavy bullet.  He loaned me his mould to test in the 7.62x54R.  I did the limited testing he requested.  I cast several hundred more before returning the mould to him.  My intention is to develop a good hunting load for the 7.65 Argentine with them but haven't gotten around to it yet.

LMG

  

Concealment is not cover.........

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Larry Gibson posted this 26 August 2018

I've also picked up English translations of the Soviet manuals for the MNs.

While I haven't done much with the Ishvesk M29/30 sniper in the way of cast bullets I do have it well zeroed for my match/sniper reload using the Sierra 174 gr MK loaded over 46.5 gr IMR4895 for 2650 fps.  With the scope zeroed the elevation adjustments run true to 1000m.  The PU scope base has adjustments for elevation and windage so the reticle can be centered at 300m setting and the rifle zeroed at 300m using the base adjustments.  Once done correctly the reticle stays centered allowing an excellent sight picture except for elevation changes. 

Here is a 100 yard target shot with the iron and the PU scope with the match loads.  I used a 6 o'clock hold for both sights and marked the POA with a post for the iron and the reticle for the scope.  The 10 ring centered 10 shot group is with the iron sights set on 100m.  My eyes aren't what they once were.....  The 5 shot group just above POA is with the PU scop with the Elevation set at 100m.  She does shoot.......

One of these days I guess I'll have to test the Ishy sniper with my M39 match cast bullet load to see if she can do this like the M39......

 

LMG

 

Concealment is not cover.........

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Ed Harris posted this 26 August 2018

Good shooting!  I need to do more work with both of mine with the 215BB bullet.  To date most of my shooting has been with the old original Walt Melander 7.62x39 mold which was the basis for the Lee and NOE bullets.  I had my M28/30 scoped when I was at Ruger and the shop-made scope mount and Weaver K4 work well.  Both the 28/30 and the M39 are m.o.a. rifles with the Sierra 174 MK in Norma brass with 44 grs. of IMR4064 or RL15.

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Wineman posted this 29 August 2018

Larry,

Nice groups. How do you think the M28 made its way all the way to SEA, captured from the Russians made into an M28 and then recaptured and given out to HCM's freedom fighters? Probably something simple like "I have a warehouse of WW2 arms, would you like some?"

First SKS I saw in the 1970's was a bring back. Gun shop wanted $500 in 1974, (same price for an AR-180) They also had an M1A1 Carbine in the jump bag and wanted $750 for it. Of course my hourly wage was $1.50 per hour, so the M39 at $250 was a bargain a few years back.

Dave

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RicinYakima posted this 29 August 2018

The "Winter War" and "The Continuation War" are very uncommon in European warfare. Neither side had very much material to put towards the war effort, but lots of young bodies. IMHO, everything captured by the Russians that could not be made into a 91/30 went into the "save" pile and were kept for many years until they could dump them on the North Vietnamese. I have a SIG made Model 1928 Finn that was updated to 28/30. I know the web sites say that they were not made, but the marking indicate that the receiver was indeed made by SIG.

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Larry Gibson posted this 29 August 2018

Wineman

The Russians (Soviets) provided the communists in Viet Nam with large numbers of MNs in the '50s which were used in the "liberation" from the French.  As more PAVN went south to continue the insurgency against RVN the MNs went with them.  As the insurgency progressed in the south China also supplied MNs in the form of Type 53s.  Then in the early '60s as the mainline PAVN units in the south were rearmed with SKS and then AKs the VC units received the MNs.  By '64/'65 most of the captured French and U.S. weapons were put into cache's as the VC began to be armed with MNs.  Ammunition resupply of 7.62x54R was steady coming down out of the north.  By late '65 the main force PAVN units in Cambodia and Laos preparing to cross into the south were armed mostly with AKs.  About then we began referring to them as NVA instead of PAVN.  As the NVA supply line (Ho Chi Minh trail) moved more weapons south the AK completely supplanted the SKS in the PAVN already in the south.  Those SKSs were then used to supplant the MNs in mainline VC units.  Of course after Tet of '68 there were few VC units left so mostly SKSs and AKs were encountered after that.

I acquired my M28 on the 8th of November, '65 in the area NW of the confluence of the Song Be and Dong Nai Rivers in War Zone D, RVN.  The previous owner was a member of a VC Main Force Regiment Q762, D800 Battalion or C505 Battalion.  Unfortunately, I was unable to discuss the "history" of the M28 with him.....actually I didn't think about asking.......

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

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RicinYakima posted this 30 August 2018

 "Unfortunately, I was unable to discuss the "history" of the M28 with him.....actually I didn't think about asking......."

One of the most interesting things I had to destroy in 1969 was a new still in the grease Lewis Gun with four magazines and one wooden box of .303 British. I remember the box had 1918 burned into it and covered in wax paper. Lack of ammo is probably why it was never used.

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Ed Harris posted this 30 August 2018

NASC, Crane, IN produced some Stellite-lined Lewis .303 barrels which ended up in Afghanistan. Believe the guns were probably being refurbed at POF. These were .30 Browning barrels which were cut off, breech collared, turned down and rethreaded, re-phosphated.  The .30 cal. bore dimensions in .303 were never a problem.  Crane also did a bunch of BAR barrels with Stellite liners in both cal. .30 and 7.62 have turned up in various places world-wide.  Also Stellite-lined .50 Browning barrels for Boyes Anti-Tank rifle and Soviet PTRD all done about same time.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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tomme boy posted this 30 August 2018

Ed, I have been a member here for a while too. I just do not post. I now can put a name with your other name. I wish we could use rifles here for dear. Just seeing what they do to a steal plate out to 200 yds has me convinced they would have no problem killing a deer to that range. 

Would like to see what you get these to do.

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Wineman posted this 01 September 2018

Larry, fascinating story with amazing detail. Two of my uncles were in the USN off the coast of VN. One on the Tico (27 Charlie angled deck) as a mechanic, the other on the Valley Forge (in its LPH configuration) as an electrician's mate. That one was going to do some radio links for the Beach Jumper program in Country but he did not end up going. Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences with the rest of us.

Dave

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