Who Shoots the .303 British?

  • 2.5K Views
  • Last Post 08 April 2019
Ed Harris posted this 15 August 2018

Jeff in NZ, Ric, Giorgio and I have been discussing the .303 British offline.  With Jeff's help I'm compiling the info for a Fouling Shot article, but we still have more shooting to do to confirm some things.

I am more interested at this point in mild, plain-based loads for recreational shooting than heavier hunting loads.

I'm using the NOE clone of 316299 in plain-base and Accurate 31-215BB which is a bevel-based version of 31-215B, having a 0.09" long, 7-1/2 degree short boattail instead of the GC heel. I ordered this .315" diameter with the tolerance "positive" because my Long Branch No. 4 Mk1* 2-groove is "large".

Initial testing has been with Bullseye, but I am also experimenting with "half charges" ala Frank Marshall, using common extruded rifle powders like 3031 or 4064, in charges which occupy about half of the case, using a loose Dacron filler tucked into the case neck.  I'm hoping to find a utility load which shoots close to point of aim at 100 yards using the ladder of the Mk3 battlesight folded down and just using standing "ghost ring."  If I can get a load which shoots about as well as MkVII Ball ammo at about 1300 fps, I figure that approximating .44-40 Winchester payload and velocity in the .303 should put lots of meat in the freezer.  The  roundnosed NOE bullet for paper, the flatnosed Accurate mold for the woods. 

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
Larry Gibson posted this 15 August 2018

I shoot the 303 in 2 Canadian milsurp rifles; a Longbranch No4 MkI* and a Ross MK10.  I use several GC'd bullets mostly so not much help there.  Only PB'd bullet I shoot is the 90 gr Lee TL314-90-SWC over 3.2 gr Bullseye.

LMG  

Concealment is not cover.........

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
delmarskid posted this 15 August 2018

I have a nice Long Branch. I may try some accurate .313" for the 327 federal. The 303 is a nice cartridge.

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 15 August 2018

If your Long Branch is a 2-groove, you will likely find .313" is too small.  I had my Accurate and NOE plainbased molds cut to .316"

 

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • delmarskid
  • M3 Mitch
pat i. posted this 15 August 2018

Hate to point it out but I think that micrometer spindle could use a little oil.

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 15 August 2018

Hate to point it out but I think that micrometer spindle could use a little oil.
Yes, I oiled it after I saw the photo, but if it hadn't been so rusty at the garage sale, I could not have gotten it so cheap.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • delmarskid
  • TRKakaCatWhisperer
pat i. posted this 15 August 2018

Works for me. Cheap trumps rust any day of the week in my book. Speaking of rust not long ago I started collecting old Coleman lanterns and stoves. Some come pretty crusty. I read about using citric acid as a soak and it works great at rust removal. Works great at bluing removal too unfortunately. But for cleaning up garage sale tools and such it works great. Hot water and some of this stuff soaked for a bit will do the job. Its something used in the food industry so it won't kill you. Its cheap so it won't empty your pockets. And its a powder so if you spill it on your Sunday best it won't leave a stain. Way off topic but the rust talk brought it to mind.

Attached Files

delmarskid posted this 16 August 2018

If your Long Branch is a 2-groove, you will likely find .313" is too small.  I had my Accurate and NOE plainbased molds cut to .316"

It shot 314's pretty well with gas checks. I should thump an 8mm bullet into the throat to know before I make a bunch of mistakes. Thanks for the heads up. It is indeed a two groove. Do most have walnut stocks?

 

 

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 16 August 2018

My Long Branch 1943 has walnut stock and handguards. The Skennerton book indicates this is normal for North American production, whereas post 1940 UK production, including postwar FTRs substituted other woods, beech and birch among others.  Many wartime Long Branch and Savage stocks after mid-1943 were supposedly made from birch depending upon supplies available at the time. 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • delmarskid
David Reiss CBA Membership Director posted this 16 August 2018

I have three SMLEs. Will get together a list of my cbs and loads.

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

Attached Files

JeffinNZ posted this 17 August 2018

I do but only for getting rid of mice.

 

Cheers from New Zealand

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
Ross Smith posted this 17 August 2018

That's a rat? I thought it was a jack rabbit!

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 17 August 2018

Now anybody who ever watched Warner Brothers cartoons on Saturday mornings as a kid, knows that is Hippety Hopper, the baby roo that Sylvester the Cat calls the Giant Mouse".

Hippety Hopper cartoons have a typical formula: Hopper escapes from a zoocircus, etc., and is mistaken for a giant mouse by Sylvester the Cat. Frequently, Hopper changes places with an actual mouse, generally when it is most embarrassing for Sylvester. Sylvester tries to capture and eat his "prey", but the innocent and infantile Hippety mistakes Sylvester's predations for a game of rough-housing. Sylvester is repeatedly punched, kicked and spun around, but each failure only strengthens his desire to have the "giant mouse" for lunch. 

 

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • delmarskid
  • M3 Mitch
JeffinNZ posted this 17 August 2018

Ed; it's pronounced Mowth.

Cheers from New Zealand

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • delmarskid
  • GP Idaho
Ed Harris posted this 17 August 2018

Ed; it's pronounced Mowth.

 

Well suthhering succotaashh I knew dat!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • delmarskid
  • M3 Mitch
Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 18 August 2018

the cameraperson on those early classics was Tweetybird ... later he himself became a star on that series .  proves you can work your way up ... not commonly known;  Tweety later went on to direct several episodes with his friend Roadrunner , using some of his old tricks on Wiley Coyote.

there were a lot of life lessons in those old cartoons.

ken

Attached Files

delmarskid posted this 18 August 2018

After careful examination my Canuck has a .318" ball seat and .314" throat with aboot ( catch the aboot?) .311" across the grooves. I have two molds for the 327 and to thirties that taper from .301" to .314". The later take gas checks but I can skip that. My rifle is walnut as well.

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
JeffinNZ posted this 18 August 2018

.318 groove is not unheard of in two groove barrels.   My .303 Pygmy barrel is a two groove and measures .317 inch.  Groove in two groove barrels were made deeper to compensate for missing grooves into which jacket metal could displace.  It's got to go somewhere. 

Cheers from New Zealand

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • delmarskid
RicinYakima posted this 18 August 2018

Any of you guys have any experience with the Savage made SMLE? I believe they were all No4Mk1's. One may be available to me, but I don't know if I want to go down that rabbit hole.

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 19 August 2018

Output from Savage began in late 1941 and lasted only 3 years compared to Canadian Longbranch production which continued  into the 1950's.  Very early North American production resulted in some No4 Mk1 rifles, but the main body of output was the war expedient No4 Mk1* which made certain concessions to the No4 design such as the cut out in the receiver for modified bolt release vs the plunger styled bolt release of the typical No4 Mk1.

Only the North American factories of Longbranch, Ontario and Savage, Chicopee Falls, MA produced the No4 Mk1* rifle. When the Savage Lend-Lease contracts ended, all remaining spare parts and work in process were sent to Longbranch.  So Longbranch No4's will be found with Savage marked parts. Savage rifles are generally marked U.S Property on the left receiver face, serial number is located on the left butt socket wrist with a letter prefix of C included - for example 96CXXXX would be typical; the C stands for Chicopee. Late war Savage No4 Mk1* rifles are nearly always without a year of manufacture, based on serial number surveys these are estimated as 1944 production.

The first rifle contract was for 300,000 No4 rifles at a cost of $57 each and of the 96 parts required to complete the No4 rifle about 86 came from 30 parts sub contractors. Savage only produced the receiver, barrel, bolt, trigger guard, bolt head and stock and the entire package was assembled at Savage by them. Overall averaged output of Savage No4 rifles is placed at 1,196,706 and with 40,000 on lend lease to China.

The first Savage Stevens No4 rifle was test fired on Friday, July 25th, 1941 at Chicopee Falls plant but the early rifles did not meet British specifications and were sub standard - this was improved gradually over time until production was at quality standard for export to Britain. Britain placed another order for 720,000 No4 Mk1* rifles in June 1942 including bayonets to run concurrent with the original order. Many pre Lend Lease U.S No4's were rejected by the British Inspectorate for various reasons.  I am told by a former Savage employee that the rejected rifles were used to fill a 40,000 rifle order for China. Later Lend Lease agreement reduced the British conditions of control and payment as these were now considered direct British Contract.

Once the rifles entered England however the British still inspected them and marked them with a B beneath the serial numbers on the butt socket to indicate British standard of inspection and a pass based on same. Savage rifles are generally found to have a 2 groove barrel and all parts should be found with the square Savage S or standard S. Receivers or various parts carry the U.S Flaming Bomb ordnance proof as well. 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • James Nicholson
  • M3 Mitch
RicinYakima posted this 19 August 2018

Thanks Ed!

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 19 August 2018

If it has the "B" stamp, buy it! 

The collector consensus is the Brit rejections were based mostly on UK replacement parts not being fully compatible, and not for any failure in terms of safety or function.  

If the rifle lacks the "B", but looks good and clean otherwise, use the lack of the "B" acceptance mark to haggle down the price.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
Ed Harris posted this 20 August 2018

Info received on new Criterion replacement barrels:

http://criterionbarrels.com/barrels/lee-enfield

 

The dimensions of the No. 4 Enfield barrel is as follows:

 

Bore Dia:  .303

 

Groove Dia:  .314

# of Grooves:  5 Grooves

Twist 1:10"

-.303 British reamer prints in attachments.

(.pdf won't attach, anyone wanting to see the chamber print PM me with your email address-Ed).  

MSRP on the No. 4 barrels is $349.99 direct from the factory. 

 

I hope that this helps to answer some of your questions.  If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to contact me directly.

Sincerely,

 

Michael Ross

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

JSH posted this 20 August 2018

Very informative Ed, thanks. Can any one educate me on the Lithgow's? I had wanted an SMLE for a while. Found this Lithgow that is so clean I would guess it was unissued. Thanks Jeff

Attached Files

David Reiss CBA Membership Director posted this 20 August 2018

Here is some photos of my Savage that shows some of Ed's points he made in his post. My is a two groove and measures .318". When I have more time I will photograph my other two SMLEs.

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
Ed Harris posted this 20 August 2018

Very informative Ed, thanks. Can any one educate me on the Lithgow's? I had wanted an SMLE for a while. Found this Lithgow that is so clean I would guess it was unissued. Thanks Jeff
I don't have any references on Lithgows.  The Skennerton book should have info.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 20 August 2018

 Thanks Dave, nice pix.

I was shocked by the cost of the new Criterion barrels too.  Luckily my Long Branch barrel is near pristine, just large, though normal for the type.  I have molds from Accurate and NOE which "fit" so I am all set, but I plan to benchmark the gun first with WW2 era WRA and Remington-UMC ball ammo, and later production Greek HXP which is supposed to be good.  I also have Sierra MatchKings loaded and suppose I should run some of those as well, then decopper and go for record with lead.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 06 September 2018

Just wanted to bump this thread.  Been too hot and humid to shoot, hoping for relief from the heat next week.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

Mike H posted this 06 September 2018

I made a start two days ago,Cast Bullet Engineering 190grain 314 diameter without gc1light coat of LLA,22.5 grains dipped of 2206H (H4895),Dacron filler,fired 14 shots at 50 yards.The 14 shots gave a vertical group of 3.5” and horizontal of 2.5”,however 12 shots had a vertical of 2.25” and a horizontal of 1.6”.A quick look down the barrel showed some powder kernels and some sort of fouling.I pushed a dry patch down the barrel and only got a few inches and stopped,got it out and tried again,it again got tighter so I withdrew it a way and pushed forward again,gaining more ground,after a few tries cleared the barrel,black fouling on the patch and flakes of lead.Finaly patched with Ed’s Red,have yet to check at home.

Next time I will try a better coat of LLA and some loads with a bees wax/molybdenum grease lube,before doing any other changes.A pleasant load to shoot,but not a wimpy one.Old eyes and being spoilt with good telescopes on Match Rifles and FTR competitions make a new challenge.

I am not smart enough to post pictures,sorrry.The weather is pleasant here for shooting,beginning of Spring.

 

 

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 06 September 2018

I think that 22.5 grains of 4895 is a bit warm without a GC, but you could always try again with more lube. 

My experience has been in most .30 cals. such as the .30-30, the .30-40 Krag, .303 British, 7.62x54R and the .30-'06, that the  plain-based, cast bullet charge using common extruded rifle powders shouldn't exceed 1/2 of the jacketed charge for a bullet of the same weight.  That presumes the bullet fits properly, is well lubricated and also presumes use of a 1 grain Dacron fill to take up some of the free airspace in the case.  

According to Speer the max. recommended load of 4895 with a 180-grain jacketed bullet in the .303 is 40 grains and the start load is 36 grains, so following the late Frank Marshall's advice, you should be working in the range of 18-20 grains and then should expect better results.  I have test loads assembled for my .303 with NOE 316299 and Accurate 31-215BB which I hope to test soon when the hot and humid weather breaks.

If you do further testing with more lube and/or a lighter charge, please post your results. 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
Mike H posted this 07 September 2018

I will take your advice onboard next time,the dipper I used was convenient,obviously near enough is not good enough.Checked the barrel today,a firm patch grabbed a bit,a few inches up the barrel,when it came out it had a flake of lead and a few tiny spots of lead,that was it,now it is fine.The rifle is a Fazlerky 1-55(mk2) Purchased new a few years ago,the possibility of not using gas checks for some of my shooting appealed to me,I am told that some vendors want $80.00 per 1,000,I can get them for $52.00 per 1,000.Will continue the project.

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 07 September 2018

Gee and I thought paying $30 in the US for GCs was too much, Ouch!

I think if you reduce the charge, increase the lube and use a Dacron filler you should be OK to to about 1400 fps. 

Some people in northern climates use a cake decorator to inject a lube ball about the size of a pea into the neck before seating the bullet and claim this helps, but I always worried about the lube melting in hot weather and attacking the powder.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
clamar posted this 08 September 2018

I had a Fazakerly-built #4 Mk1/2 that had had an FTR (I think that's right-factory thorough something) with a new BSA 5-groove barrel.  IIRC, that barrel miked ~0.312" after I got the proper measuring block.  I shot Lee 180-185 gr. bullets with the gas-checks applied in a 0.314" lube-sizer die.  I shot ~15 gr. of 4759 and later 5744.  So outfitted, it was capable of right at 2 MOA, which I understood to be very good for Enfields.  I later got a 1903A3 that shot better, so the Enfield went to someone else.  If anyone is interested, I still have the Lee mould and 5-groove measuring block and would make them available to someone who would use them.

 

Clarence

Attached Files

TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 08 September 2018

Clarence - I want both the mold and the 5-groove measuring block - email me:  coehorn@gmail.com .  Thanks,

Tim K

Attached Files

Mike H posted this 18 September 2018

I have had another try,this time used 19.5 grains of 2206H(H4895),same Bullet,190 grain CBE without the gas check,changed the lube to 50% Beeswax and 50% Moly grease hand applied to the bullets,as well used 1 grain Dacron filler.Previously I said that the original load was 22.5 grains of powder,this was incorrect,it was 21.5 grains.

11 shots at 50 yards went into a group 2” vertical and 2.25” horizontal,from a clean barrel,at 100 yards the first shot was 10” below the 50 yard group,after a couple more shots winding up,the next eight were 3” horizontal and 6” vertical.I then changed to another target and put 13 shots into 4.5” horizontal and 6” vertical.

In total Ifired 34 shots,the barrel was easier to clean,still some light lead flakes on the patches but no welded on lumps in the barrel,I did notice that all the bullet holes showed slight tipping.This is an interesting and pleasant project.

Attached Files

Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 18 September 2018

not bad at all. . . . . especially when you take off the two inches each way for the iron sight handi-cap, and additionally subract the one-inch wobble area from the military stock .

i had an unfired brit one time, but i figured if i fired it, it would not be unfired anymore ... that  confused me so i sold it.  always wondered if the next guy fired it.

ken

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
beemer posted this 18 September 2018

I have as early Faz No4 Mk2 made in 9-1949, it was unfired but that was taken care of in short order. I had it D&T'ed and added a cheek pad. It does 2-2 1/2 with the 185 Lee gas check bullet and 20 grs. IMR 4198. The bullet is barely sized in a .314 die and I add about .6 grain of dacron. This rifle does fairly well with several bullets as long as they are close to .314. I have never tried a bullet with no gas check, I will give it a try.

My Long Branch is a 1944 with a 2 groove barrel, It is also scoped. It has never shot cast as well as the Faz, don't remember what it slugged but it was rather large. It does almost as well with jacketed bullets as the Faz so it does jacketed duty only.

The barrels on both rifles are completely free floated except under the chamber. This goes against everything I have been told but it works on these two. 

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Attached Files

Danny posted this 19 September 2018

Going to try posting my first pick. Here is my Mk III. I've done some cosmetic work to it as it came to me pretty nasty with green paint on the stock. The date on the receiver is 1918 and that is significant to my family as my maternal grand uncle died with members of the lost battalion in October of 1918. Hope it comes out but if not, I'll learn why and fix it.

Danny

My 1918 SmLE mk III

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • JeffinNZ
Danny posted this 19 September 2018

different angle

Attached Files

Danny posted this 19 September 2018

Well it worked but needs refined. At least it is rather easy to post photos here. I'll get better.

Attached Files

delmarskid posted this 22 September 2018

I killed the 18 yellow jackets holed up in my reloading room today andade up some plain based .303's. My saeco 315 mold does drop a tapered 175g bullet that is a solid .315" on it base. I lubed the bottom three grooves with lihi/been home brew. The charge was 6g of bullseye. This is a gas check design mold. I left the grease on the shank where the check should go but wiped the bases mostly clean. These are a treat to shoot and. The accuracy was promising. They shoot to the top of the front sight using the rear close range aperture. I needed to raise the long range aperture to nearly the 600 yard setting to be on the 9" black at 150 yards. I'm having a noseem day but I was pleased to see more in than out. There's some tipping going on at 150 but not at 50. I'm thinking 150 is about where they may go subsonic.

Attached Files

pisco posted this 11 October 2018

hi new here coming in a bit late but i have 2 lithgow smle and a martini 303 that i cast for i use cbe moulds the smle mould is 315 /222gr i size and g/c to 314 with 27 gr ar2206h the martini mould is 317 /245gr sized and g/c to 315 with 16gr ar2205 the martini is so much fun i have bought another 2

Attached Files

JeffinNZ posted this 12 October 2018

For our US cousins, AR2205 is H4227 and AR2206H is H4895.  ADI powders made for Hodgdon sold in the Antipodes under ADI's own brand. 

Cheers from New Zealand

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 12 October 2018

For our US cousins, AR2205 is H4227 and AR2206H is H4895.  ADI powders made for Hodgdon sold in the Antipodes under ADI's own brand. 

 

Good to know!  I have been using for my test loads the RCBS Little Dandy Rotor #21 which meters about 17.5 grains  of IMR 4227 and about 17 grains of IMR4198, IMR3031 and IMR4064.  These are all a bit less than 1/2 of a case full  following the Frank Marshall formula, and I am using neck-sized, fireformed cases, and 1 grain Dacron fill with both the NOE #316299 and Accurate #31-215BB.

So far appears that with hard MkVIIz Ball, 300-yard sight dope on the Mk3 battlesight, firing with plainbased cast loads and 200-215 grain bullets these shoot close to point of aim at 50 yards.  17.5 of 4227 leaded with LLA only, but velocity was uniform if simply loaded into the magazine and yanked and cranked, positioning the powder without filler forward, which produced about 1450 fps. 

Will repeat with Dacron fill and filling lube grooves with 50-50 mutton tallow and beeswax to see if it mitigates the bore leading.

Also have samples loaded tallow and beeswax lube using volume from LD#21 rotor of 4198 and 3031 with 1 grain loose Dacron fill for next range trip.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

tedly posted this 22 October 2018

I'm in Canada, where a No4 Mk1 in full wood is selling for about $600. In 1964 I saw a soap drum in the Sears store where you could take your pick of 1s or 4s for $9.95. Couldn't afford it then, and I can't honestly afford it now, but somehow I have two, and just bought a former trophy rifle with a pristine -appears never fired - barrel for a grand. I guess the other two are going down the road.

On the old ones I have been following Ed's bore conditioning procedure, and while I haven't got a perfect load worked  up on visual inspection many of the pits seem to have been filled in, making the barrel appear much smoother than I know it is. Groups are shrinking, but some days everything just seems to go wrong.

Now for a question. Ed, you seem to have changed your opinion on Dacron fillers, and I'd like to know what is the proper procedure for filler in a .303? You say it's inserted in the case neck, is it pushed down by the seated bullet, does it touch the powder, I'm certain it's not to be forced down against the powder, but other than that I'm up in the air.

Thanks to you and everybody on the forum for tons of useful information.

 

 

 

 

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 22 October 2018

I use a 3/4" to 1" square of 1/4" thick "quilt batting," to weigh about 1 grain, which is cut with scissors and tucked into the case mouth with tweezers like this:

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
tedly posted this 23 October 2018

Thank you. Dead centre perfect.

Attached Files

Scearcy posted this 23 October 2018

Ed

Is there any reason that using this filler method would not help a 3006 load with about 20 gr of 4759. While I can't prove it, I have always believed that 4759 is position sensitive.

Jim

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 23 October 2018

It should work fine with the same caveats.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

pisco posted this 05 November 2018

how much powder are you using in your 303 with cast 

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 05 November 2018

Accurate 31-215BB (no GC)

18 grs. IMR4064 with Dacron fill, 1179 fps, 16 Sd, 51 ES

18 grs. IMR3031 with Dacron fill, 1257 fps, 34 Sd, 101 ES

17 grs. IMR4198 with Dacron fill, 1360 fps, 22 Sd, 77 ES

16 grs. IMR4227 with Dacron fill, 1445 fps, 13 SD, 34 ES, bore leaded after 10 shots, group opened up, reduce 1 grain, repeat.  Should be OK with GC'ed bullet.

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

pisco posted this 06 November 2018

what 303 are you using the 16 gr 4227 in i have used 2 different bullets in both smiles and martinis never had a problem with leading with the magic 16 gr of fast burning powder if i have any doubts of the barrel i roll baby powder on the bullet and fire lap the barrel best advice from a old hand only the other day i had a martini that started key holing then shot a 35 mm group at 50 y

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 06 November 2018

I am shooting a 2-groove Cdn. Long Branch No.4 Mk1* with .316" groove diameter using a PLAIN BASED .317" bullet and no GC.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

pisco posted this 10 November 2018

had a savage 2 groove  tinkered with it for months went from turkey plate groups to clover leaf

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 10 November 2018

had a savage 2 groove  tinkered with it for months went from turkey plate groups to clover leaf

 

So, what proved to be the "magic" combination?  Inquiring minds would like to know.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

pisco posted this 10 November 2018

done all the bedding with acraglas that made a big difference recrowned the barrel done away with the original 300/600rear sight and got the adjustable rear sight and made a insert for the peep and drilled it with a small drill it held in place with loctight changed lead mix to 7 pounds w/w 1 pound scrap solder opened up old lee mould sized to 315 got it working real good and sold it

Attached Files

longhunter posted this 11 November 2018

I have two 303.  One an Austrailan Jungle Carbine, shoots well and a No1 mk3.  It has a new 1945 barrel on it.  Both bores are good.

I use the Lyman 314299 sized to ,314  with Alox and Bills Liquid lube as an over coat.

16 gr of IMR 4227 and have good luck with this load. 10 grs of Uniqe also has shot well for me.

Jon

Jon Welda CW5 USA Ret. 608 797 0056

Attached Files

max503 posted this 11 November 2018

If your Long Branch is a 2-groove, you will likely find .313" is too small.  I had my Accurate and NOE plainbased molds cut to .316"

 

 Hope this isn't a dumb question, but you tumble lube your rifle bullets?  Or is it just because those are PB?

Attached Files

Ed Harris posted this 11 November 2018

At the velocities which work best with plainbased bullets and light smokeless charges, no more lube is needed than the tumble film-lubes. More lube with light loads seems to open groups.  Above about 1300 fps I fill the lube grooves, generally by pan lubing 1:4 mutton tallow and beeswax, or the same ratio of ATF and beeswax for heavier GC loads above 1800 fps.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

Attached Files

pisco posted this 14 November 2018

done some tinkering over the weekend the slugs i run in my smles i have been sizeing them to 314 tried some at 315 and made a difference with the groups have loaded some up and will shoot service rifle in a few weeks and see how they go

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • delmarskid
Mike H posted this 01 March 2019

I have still been working on the 303‘s,late last year I purchased another mould off David at Cast Bullet Engineering,a double cavity 303 mould,one cavity is 315-218 GC and the other a 315-240 GC,I have shot them both at 50 yards without a gas check,18 grains of 2206 and a Dacron filler in a loose Long Branch.The 315-218 gc,about 225 grains shot the best with ten shots going 52 millimeters vertical(just over 2&ldquo and 29 millimeters wide.The 240 grain 315-240 didn‘t do as well,5“ wide by 1.7“ high,they also were showing plenty of tipping and wobble,

I have also loaded them with a gc and 28 grains of 2206 powder and a dacron filler, 2206 is not made now but is very close to 2206H.At 100 yards off a bench the 240 grain with 28 grains of 2206 put eight shots into a 3“ group,2.5“ horizontal and 2.3“ vertical.This seemed a good solid load.                                                           Last week I tried the 315-218gc and 28 grains of 2206 at 300 yards,I didn’t have a good position and the 4X scope wasn’t set up well,being too far back,causing poor holding,however it kept inside the aiming mark,about 22“ diameter. If I can get a rifle set up with a scope with correct eye relief,I am sure good things can happen. At the moment I have plenty of various loads ready,all it needs is cooler weather.

Attached Files

JeffinNZ posted this 01 March 2019

For our US cousins AR2260H is H4895.

Cheers from New Zealand

Attached Files

Mike H posted this 07 April 2019

Today I went to one of two ranges I am a member of,when signing in,I was asked was I shooting in the mornings competition,I had only came to test gas check loads in a couple of 303‘s,after a quick thought,I replied why not,after it was explained the competition was a 303 service rifle shoot.The format was 5 at 50yards,10 at 100 yards and 5 at 200 yards.I had time to get a zero at 100 yards,then the competition began,had to guess an aiming point at 50 yards,which was fortunately close enough,after the 50 yards we moved to 100 yards,looked fairly good then I reckoned there were more shots on the target,as there was an old bloke next door,older than my 75 plus years,I soldierd on,when time came to score I had 20 shots on the target and my neighbor had the correct 10.After a few short seconds,I came to the conclusion all of my gas checks had come off.We then moved to the 200 yard range,that was a serious eye test,after firing the required 5 shots,I now had 9 shots on the paper.

What surprised me was that the gas checks that came off at 100 yards could carry to 200 yards and still hit the target.At 100 yards the 20 hits were 6.75“ wide and 6“ deep,at 200 yards the nine hits were 9““ deep and 11“ wide.All I could think was that after the gas checks came off before 100 yards,they may have been carried along in some sort of vacuum behind the solid projectile part.A mystery to me,now I have to stop the gas checks coming off.The scorers took pity on me,and reckoned I was handicapped enough using lead gc bullets and I came third.

The load was 28 grains of 2206 powder,which is very close to H4895,one grain dacron filler and Federal 210 primers,would have to check but fairly sure the cases were HXP neck sized in a Lee collet die,they were given a Lee Factory Crimp Die Crimp after seating.

Attached Files

Mike H posted this 07 April 2019

I forgot to mention what projectile I was using,it was a CBE 313-215 GC with Hornady gc‘s,sized 314“,home lube,half bees wax and half moly grease.The rifle a Fazlerky no 4.

Attached Files

pisco posted this 08 April 2019

hi where do you shoot at mike h i have shot service rifle with cast it would be good to catch up

Attached Files

Mike H posted this 08 April 2019

I am at Junee,NSW,this lot of shooting was at Wagga Wagga SSAA,shot off benches,not the same as on a classification range,I would say it was shooting with a service rifle,but not what I knew as Service Rifle with deliberate,snap and rapid stages.As most of the members are not up to anything too vigorous and the range standing orders to be followed, shooting of the bench under cover is very pleasant.

Attached Files

pisco posted this 08 April 2019

hi that is a bit of a trip from inverell

Attached Files

Close