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pat i.
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#1 Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 05:28 am |
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I think it's an accepted idea that hot barrels and cast bullets aren't the perfect combination and in a recent discussion with Jeff Bowles he mentioned he ran a small fan on his barrel between relays to cool it down. It sounded like a pretty good idea to me and since the current cartridge/velocity combination I'm playing with (30x47-17 twist-170 gr LBT bullet-2575 fps) heats the barrel up real fast it sounded like a good idea.
After wandering around Menards for a while I found an air mattress pump that Coleman sells that runs on 4 D batteries (called the 4D for some unknown reason) that puts out a heck of a lot of air. In the plastic hose aisle I found a piece of 3/4 OD - 5/8 ID rubber hose that's a perfect fit for both the pump outlet and the action. So far I've tried the fit it in both my Stolle and a 98 Mauser action and the hose is a good fit in both so assume it'll work in any center fire action.
To test the thing out I picked up a barbecue thermometer with a 12 inch probe to insert in the barrel. I put O-rings on it because I didn't want to take any chances so the temp isn't actual barrel steel temp but air temp 12 inches in from the muzzle. I wanted to somewhat approximate shooting in a match so to start I fired 5 warm up rounds and then four 5 shot groups 7 minutes apart.
After the warm up and first two 5 shot groups I inserted the thermometer after 5 minutes and took a reading after letting the thermometer sit in the barrel the final two minutes. Temp was 135 degrees. I then shot my final two groups, ran the blower down the barrel for 5 minutes, followed the same test procedure of 2 minutes with the thermometer and air temp. in the barrel was 100 degrees. It stands to reason that the barrel would have been much hotter after firing 10 more shots so in my opinion the cooler does a great job. Price at Menards was 9 bucks for the blower and 5 bucks for 10 feet of hose. I've run the thing for an hour and a half with the cheapest D batteries I could find and it still puts out enough air to cool a barrel so overall not a bad investment if barrel heat is a concern. I've included a couple of pictures if you're interested.
Accuracy wasn't part of the test and the 30x47 is still giving me fits but I've also included a photo of the test target. Lower left was the warm up, top two are the first and second group, and middle and lower right are the last two. The flyer thing is something I have some ideas about and hope to have solved next time out but as you can see cooling the barrel doesn't seem to hurt and from what I've seen so far really helps in my case.
What got me going down this path is that in the second match I shot this gun in my first 10 shot group at 100 yds was .725, the second was 1.100. After a lunch and an offhand match my first 200 yd 10 shot group was some where in the 2.2 range and my second was almost 3 inches. Conditions were pretty bad but maybe it had something to do with heat. Time, and a small investment, will tell.
I couldn't figure out how to attach 3 pictures so will place them in separate posts.
Pat
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pat i.
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#2 Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 05:31 am |
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| Forgot to mention it and don't know if it matters but outside temperature was in the low 80s. Attachment: IMG_0382 (Small).jpg
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pat i.
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#3 Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 05:32 am |
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And finally.
Pat
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pat i.
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#4 Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 05:40 am |
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Also forgot to mention that if you look at the ocular lens of the Weaver scope you'll notice that little 3x Booster thing I wrote about. It does work and turned the 36x into a 46x without much light loss and no noticeable loss of resolution. It was a cloudy day and I probably wouldn't have noticed any light loss if it was sunny. I also liked the fact that it boosted the size of the dot 30%, easier to see for bad eyes.
Pat
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Joe Brennan
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#5 Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 12:07 pm |
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This rig looks safer than my method. I have a piece of 3/8" tubing with a funnel on the end, and pour a 12 ounce bottle of tap water through the barrel from the chamber end. The water runs out the muzzle and down to the ground. I've done this for years, didn't invent it. Sometimes down here it's 98 degrees with no wind, and barrels heat up and stay hot. We can see accuracy go to pot, I don't know why. Water cooling gives some folks the horrors, but no damage to date.
Paul Sorenson cooled SS rifle barrels with water, and I don't think he invented it. I want to mention Pope, but don't know where the reference is now.
joe brennan
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pat i.
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#6 Posted: Tue Aug 7th, 2007 07:02 pm |
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Joe if I was shooting on a no wind 98 degree humid Florida day with my tongue hanging out and saw someone pouring 12 oz. of water down a barrel the next thing you'd see is me laying down at your feet with my mouth open!! Keep the comments to yourself.
Pat
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John F.
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#7 Posted: Sat Sep 1st, 2007 10:34 pm |
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Great post! Thanks for the good information -- I will be heading out to look for one of these shortly!
I am curious to ask where you purchased your 3X booster attachment for the Weaver scope?
Thanks,
John
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PETE
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#8 Posted: Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 04:39 am |
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Personally I cool barrels the way the Buffalo hunters did. Only problem is you have to drink plenty of liquids to keep a good head of pressure up! 
PETE
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pat i.
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#9 Posted: Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 12:23 pm |
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John F. wrote: Great post! Thanks for the good information -- I will be heading out to look for one of these shortly!
I am curious to ask where you purchased your 3X booster attachment for the Weaver scope?
Thanks,
John
John,
I got the optical booster from Gene Davis gdavis10@columbus.rr.com. I wrote him last week asking if he had any brochures I could take to the nationals and he said he didn't but if anyone was interested in getting one to email and he'd send it out. If they liked it they could send the money, if not just return it. It was the same when I ordered mine and got it in three days.
He has an ad on the Benchrest Central. com website under Classified in the scope section and there's some discussion about the booster in the Centerfire Benchrest forum if you search for Booster.
The booster costs $100 and does exactly what it's supposed to do.
Take Care,
Pat
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pat i.
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#10 Posted: Sun Sep 2nd, 2007 06:13 pm |
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From the Accurate Shooter website
Davis Power-Boosting Scope Lens Insert
Filed under: Optics — Editor @ 10 am
Gene Davis has a new product that boosts the magnification of Leupold, Sightron, and Weaver BR scopes. A threaded ring with a Zeiss lens simply screws on to your scope behind the eyepiece, using the threads provided for lens caps. (Consider it an eyepiece extension). Both 2X and 3X models are available. The 2X version increases image size about 15% while the 3X boosts the viewed image roughly 30%. Hence, on a 36X scope, Davis’ 3X booster creates the equivalent of a 46X power scope. Starting with a 45X Leupold you can get 58X power. Many long-range BR shooters are using this product and reporting to Gene that they can see bullet holes at 600 yards and beyond for the first time. However, there is a price for the extra magnification–the reticle will appear slightly larger, and the image will appear somewhat darker. But, according to Gene: “the image darkening is almost imperceptible during prime daylight hours.� We think Gene’s invention is a winner–a great way to get more magnification at a low cost–$100.00. We also like the fact that, unlike an internal boosting job, you can simply remove the Booster if you want to return to the original magnification level.
Gene reports: “If the scope has screw-in lens caps, these Optical Boosters perform well. We started with a product for the Leupold Competition scopes. We now have Optical Boosters for Weaver T36 and Sightron 36BR as well. We are working on other brands of scopes and the earlier Leupold scopes that do not have threads for the cap. The Optical Boosters do a fantastic job for old or poor eyes. They fit any Leupold scope that has screw-in lens caps, as well as the Weaver and Sightron 36-power target scopes. The Boosters require no internal modification and will not effect the factory warranty. The Optical Boosters (either 2X or 3X) cost $100 delivered.� To purchase, contact Gene Davis at (740) 503-4486 or gdavis10 [at] columbus.rr.com.
Here are reports from two users:
Dick Wright: “Mine is on a 45X Leup…. It’s now a 60X Leup. I got it at the Super Shoot. Excellent optics. You have to re-focus the crosshair. I used it at the Oscoda match where we had lots of mirage. It was a 200 yd. score match and I could see my .22 bullet holes easily. This is totally subjective but, if anything, it made it easier to see. It’s an optical booster that really works for a mere [$100] bucks. All you have to do to reverse the process is un-screw it.�
Joe Pellegrene: “I just got back from the range using my new 3x magnifier on a 45x Leupold. Now it’s a 60x scope and I can’t imagine how I ever lived without it. If anyone’s having trouble seeing their bullet holes on the target this product is well worth the money. It’s easily the most significant piece of equipment that I bought yet.
I plan on using it on several different rifles since you just unscrew it and screw it on the next one. It that takes about 10 seconds to do that. The fine cross hairs on my Leupold were magnified, but so was the target so everything seemed proportional. It’s so much nicer seeing what you’re trying to hit. Now if only Gene would make one for the Nightforce scopes. You can put me down for one Nightforce magnifier. Gene, I wouldn’t mind shooting a 56x Nightforce!�
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Joe Brennan
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#11 Posted: Thu Sep 13th, 2007 11:03 am |
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I was trying some slower(for me) powder in the M54 30WCF yesterday, at 2-3 foulers and 10 record shots in a 15 minute relay, then ~10 minutes for target change. The barrel got hot and stayed hot, almost too hot to hold.
I didn't cool it in any way, got my traditional series of 15 five shot groups.
Then I started to wonder, does the hot barrel affect accuracy? It doesn't seem to affect impact point, in this gun. Does heat affect group size?
joe brennan
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pat i.
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#12 Posted: Thu Sep 13th, 2007 03:30 pm |
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Joe Brennan wrote: I was trying some slower(for me) powder in the M54 30WCF yesterday, at 2-3 foulers and 10 record shots in a 15 minute relay, then ~10 minutes for target change. The barrel got hot and stayed hot, almost too hot to hold.
I didn't cool it in any way, got my traditional series of 15 five shot groups.
Then I started to wonder, does the hot barrel affect accuracy? It doesn't seem to affect impact point, in this gun. Does heat affect group size?
joe brennan
In my case yes.
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Jeff Bowles
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#13 Posted: Thu Sep 13th, 2007 03:41 pm |
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Mine also.
I used twin fans at the nationals this past weekend. Made a big difference. The barrel was ambient temp by the time the next target was ready.
I noticed there were several competitors that were using some kind of cooling set up.
I do know that at least one of the class winners was using a cooling set up and that at least one of the top three in production class was using one.
____________________
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"In God We Trust - Politicians we watch very closely!"
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Joe Brennan
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#14 Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2007 12:41 pm |
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I've spent a lot of time thinking about this and browsing at the hardware store. There are brass and copper and aluminum things that one could put in or on the barrel to cool it down. No elegant solution has come to me yet.
I keep going back to the water cooling. It's easy, clean, cheap, doesn't require a lot of equipment (perhaps a problem there), and fast-pour 12 ounces of water through the barrel and it's cool.
The possible drawbacks are that the water may injure the barrel, the water may get into the action and rust everything up and it doesn't require a lot of equipment.
I seem able to pour the water through the barrel without getting any in the action. A 3/8" O.D. plastic tube jams right into the chamber neck. A 3/8" I.D. 2" long plastic tube goes over the first tube, and a funnel jams into the other end.
I put the gun forward, resting on the front bag at ~ the front of the trigger guard, barrel aimed down sharply. Jam in the tubing apparatus, pour the water from a plastic water bottle through the barrel, the water drains out onto the ground in front of the bench. Remove the plastic apparatus, push a patch through the barrel, clean if desired and done.
Will the water hurt the barrel steel?
I went to Home Depot, they've got oderless mineral spirits that I clean with, acetone, turpentine, alcohol, MEK--alternatives to the water but requiring collection at the muzzle for re-use.
If water in the action rusting the dickens out of everything is viewed as a problem, the alcohol would solve it.
Why not water?
joe b.
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Jeff Bowles
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#15 Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2007 02:24 pm |
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Joe
From my competition viewpoint.
Water is not practical.
First you are taking the barrel from one extreme to another, hot to cool very rapidly. Personally I don't think that kind of stress is good for the barrel.
Second you are introducing something into the barrel that could become trapped in the fine imperfections from the machining of the barrel. This may cause an adverse reaction such as a slight amount of hydroplaning.
Introducing any type of solvent to the inside of the barrel will remove any seasoning created by prior firings. I know that pouring anything liquid down the barrel will not result in 360 degree coverage so there will most likely be a small area at the top of the bore that will not get as wet as the bottom. The hassle of recollecting the liquid at the end of the muzzle takes time we just don't have when shooting matches.
The small fans I have are from Belkin and are available at most AutoZone stores for about $8.95 and run on a single D cell battery. One battery will last 2 days minimum under match conditions.
As an added bonus, since these fans amove air across the outside of the barrel, with a little aiming you can fore go the use of a mirage shield as the air flow is enough to disrupt the heat waves rising off the barrel.
Also as opposed to using a system that blows air down the inside of the barrel, this can be turned on and left on while you are shooting.
I find that using the external fans I can reduce the barrel temp at 7 inches from the chamber from 160 - 163 degress F to near ambient in around 7 minutes, the minimum time alloted between matches per CBA rules. I did this measurement using a K type thermocouple and a handheld digital display.
____________________
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"In God We Trust - Politicians we watch very closely!"
"I'll keep my guns, my money and my freedom, you can keep the change!"
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pat i.
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#16 Posted: Fri Sep 14th, 2007 03:08 pm |
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Joe,
There's nothing wrong with using water if it works for you. As for the equipment needed, once you spend the 15 bucks on all the equipment I had to buy air is easy, cheap, clean, never runs out, won't rust anything, and most important of all light.
It seems to me that any of the ways mentioned would work just fine and there's no reason to over complicate or turn something as simple as pouring water or blowing air either in to or on to a barrel into a a science project. If you want elegance go buy a tuxedo, if you want to cool a barrel down a bit pick air or water and run with it.
Pat
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Joe Brennan
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#17 Posted: Thu Sep 27th, 2007 07:01 pm |
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This below is my piece. If Jeff would write a little more about his fans etc, batteries, where they came from, we'll have four shots at this. For the book-errata. Jeff?
joe b.
In the hot weather here in South Florida, some rifles and loads produce hot barrels.
Our course of fire is 15 minutes of firing followed by a period of about ten minutes for target changing. I shoot 2-4 foulers and 10 shots for record in each 15 minute firing period.
On hot days with larger charges of slower powder the barrel is hot after the target changing period, hot enough to be uncomfortable to the touch.
I cool the rifle barrel using some plastic tubing, a funnel, and a bottle of ambient temperature water.
Pouring the water through the barrel and onto the ground cools the barrel quickly so that it doesn't feel a bit hot.
I've been doing this water cooling for a few weeks as the temperature at the range has been in the low 90s. Yesterday, 9/26/07, I brought a camera to the range to take pictures of the devilishly clever tubing-funnel apparatus. The barrel was at air temperature, no discernable heat, after the target changes; so I didn't do any cooling but did get a picture. As I left the range the radio lady announced that the Miami temperature was 74 degrees, very unusual for this time of year, and apparently cool enough to cool the barrel down without any help.
joe brennan
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sniper
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#18 Posted: Fri May 2nd, 2008 07:04 pm |
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| What I do is wet a washcloth with rubbing alchol..,.the ~70% flavor from the drugstore. The 90% sort will do, also. Rub the barrel, drape ithe cloth over the barrel, and the evaporation will cool the barrel quickly. Don't forget to oil after use. It would probably work well in conjunction with the air treatment, too. Our range doesn't have electrical outlets.
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Jeff Bowles
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#19 Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 04:02 am |
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The cooling fans I use are powered by "D" cell batteries. It moves enough air tp cool the barrel down to ambient within 7 minutes. I will get a picture tomorrow and post it.
____________________
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"In God We Trust - Politicians we watch very closely!"
"I'll keep my guns, my money and my freedom, you can keep the change!"
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sniper
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#20 Posted: Sat May 3rd, 2008 03:45 pm |
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| Woops! Missed the part abut the "D" batteries. I may try that.
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