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Bullseye Always Works  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Thu Dec 7th, 2006 03:03 pm
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Ed Harris
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I've simplified my powder supply and do just about everything now with either Bullseye in handguns, or RL-15 in rifles.  I use Bullseye for light rifle loads too, and it works fine, but you must be VERY cautious.  Frank Marshall  got me started using BE in light rifle loads and I do so in every rifle caliber I shoot from the .32 ACP - YES, I do have a rifle in .32 ACP, to the .375 H&H (13 grs with the #375449 approximates the .38-55 and is a good deer load).

Most of my handgun shooting is in the .32 S&W Long, .38 Special, .44 Special and .45 ACP.  Bullseye is the best here.  Works fine and an 8 pound caddie lasts a long time.

Gallery rifle loads with Bullseye powder I have used successfully are:

In .222 and .223 Rem. with #224415 - 4 grs. Bullseye

In .22-250 with #224415 - 5 grs. Bullseye

In 7.62x39 - .312-155-2R or NEI #69 - 5 grs. Bullseye

In the .30-30 - Saeco #322 or #315 - 6 grs. of Bullseye

In the .30-40 Krag and .303 British -  #314299 or NEI #65A - 7 grs. of Bullseye

In the .308 Win. with NEI #56 - 8 grs. Bullseye

In the 8mm Mauser with NEI #90 - 8 grs. Bullseye

In the .30-06 with NEI #56 - 8 grs. of Bullseye.

In the .30-06 with NEI #72 - 9 grs. of Bullseye

In the .375 H&H with #375449 - 13 grs. of Bullseye. - do not meed to enlarge flash holes on this one.  Good hunting load approximates standard velocity .38-55

Use standard rifle primers, not pistol primers.  Use NO FILLERS.

Be VERY careful to visually inspect proper powder fill 100% using a pen light and shining it in EVERY case to positively prevent missing or double charges.

Photo below is my ~4.5 pound H&R "Bunny Gun" with 26" barrel for the .32 S&W Long and 18" barrel for the .32 ACP with representative 25-yard targets shot with factory loads.

Last edited on Fri Dec 15th, 2006 02:32 pm by Ed Harris



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 Posted: Mon Jan 1st, 2007 11:47 pm
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TRK
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I envy your 'bunny gun' - I've got a Winchester 370 in .410 that's likely to end up in .25-20 or .32H&R.

Did you drill and ream for a cut down diameter barrel?

 



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 Posted: Tue Jan 2nd, 2007 08:22 am
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Ed Harris
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Neither, I had John Taylor make two complete barrel assemblies from scatch, one for .32 S&W Long and the other for .32 ACP. I still have the original .410 barrel. He also made .45 ACP and .357 Mag. barrels for my Beretta M412 single-shot and I still have the original .410 barrel for that.

 

Last edited on Tue Jan 2nd, 2007 03:14 pm by Ed Harris



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 Posted: Tue Jan 2nd, 2007 11:04 pm
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Ken O
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I haven't used Bullseye for quite a while, I agree it is a great powder. I went from it to Red Dot, to WW231 (which I used for 10+ years) then WW452 (I just loved this powder, but they quit making it), and now I use Clays. I load for IPSC, IDPA, Steel Challenge, using a 1911 and a S&W 625 in 45ACP. I use the Lee 200SWC for the 1911 and a Lyman 452374 for the 625.
I shoot Hi-Power and Long range matches with an AR15, and RL15 is all I use. Varget was good also, but the RL15 was a little more consitant lot to lot. I use jacketed for this rifle.



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 Posted: Thu Jan 4th, 2007 02:30 pm
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4060may
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Ed
Have you ever used Ramshot Competition.
I was given a pound ad have been using it in my 32-20 with ok results, .313-120gr bullet.
I use WC680 with Lee 115gr/GC bullet, with very good results.

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 Posted: Thu Jan 4th, 2007 02:43 pm
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Ed Harris
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Nope. Never ever tried it. It came out about the time I was trying in earnest to either use up or give away all my odds and ends of different powders accumulated over the years , and I simply didn't want to add any more orphans to the collection.



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 Posted: Sat Jan 13th, 2007 10:22 am
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Dan Willems
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Ed,

Ya, I've tried the same thing with Bullseye. It works great in my 357mag and 44mag for gallery loads. I use 4.3gr with a 148gr Wadcutter cast bullet in my 357mag. In my 44mag, 5.5gr with a 250gr cast bullet in either a Semi-Wadcutter or Roundnose-Flatpoint are really accurate indoors at 50ft.

I don't like to use 'special' cases for gallery loads in my magnums, because the carbon ring is too hard to clean out of the cylinder chambers.

My 45 ACP likes SR7625 better. I think revolvers will all shoot well with Bullseye, but semi-auto pistols will need a certain burn-rate powder to function well and still be accurate.

Dan Willems

 

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 Posted: Sat Jan 13th, 2007 08:39 pm
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RicinYakima
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Dan,

I just had a 4 pound can of SR7625 given to me. Want to pass on any good loads for the 45 ACP in the 1911? I cast both 452460 and 452423.

Ric

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 Posted: Sun Jan 14th, 2007 02:40 pm
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Dan Willems
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Ric,

For my 45 ACP with a 200gr cast bullet, 4.2gr of Bullseye did shoot the best groups, over Unique, Clays, WW231, 700X, and even 6.5gr of SR7625.

With the Remington 230gr jacketed Golden Saber bullet, the 6.5gr of SR7625 shot the best over these powders. With a Speer 230gr Gold Dot, 4.8gr of 700X shot the best.

There was never any hands-down differences between these loads, but the SR7625 never shot badly. I like the stuff as it seem to do well every time I tested it and always pulled through with good groups.

At 6.5grs a load, you have a lot of shooting ahead you with that 4# can of powder!  Have Fun! :)..............Dan

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 Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2007 02:31 pm
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Ed Harris
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A note regarding current Alliant vs. older Hercules Bullseye. The current stuff has a lower NG content than the older powder, is slightly slower in burning rate and requires about a 0.3 grain increase in charge, compared to the Hercules product in calibers with a capacity similar to the .38 Special or .45 ACP. If you used to use 2.7-2.8 grains with a 148-gr. wadcutter in .38 Special with the old stuff, about 3.0-3.1 will give you the same velocity with Alliant.

Some charge establishment in .45 ACP:

Factory Load "Benchmarks"
_______________S&W 625_4" _______M1911A1 5"
Winch USA230FMJ 754, 18Sd__________ 819, 20Sd
Winch USA230JHP 821, 5Sd___________ 835, 9Sd
GI Ball FC-61_____788, 27Sd_________ 820, 25Sd

Charge Establishment with Alliant Bullseye
Saeco #954 230-grain LFN, wheelweights Lee Liquid Alox, loaded as-cast, unsized, Lee Factory Crimp, WW cases, WLP, OAL 1.20"

_______________S&W 625 4" ________M1911A1 5"
4.5 BE__________ 730,17Sd __________771, 18Sd
5.0 BE __________798, 10Sd__________858, 33Sd
5.2 BE 230FMJ____758, 6Sd ___________791, 30Sd

Last edited on Thu Mar 1st, 2007 02:36 pm by Ed Harris



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Regards, Ed
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 Posted: Tue Mar 6th, 2007 01:19 pm
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3sixbits
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700X and 800X are the most versatile powder I've ever used. I have better than 12 lbs of bullseye on opened on the shelf and would pick-up more 800X before I loaded anything else. The best of the best, 800X.

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 Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2007 10:06 am
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Ed Harris
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Where lab-tested data exists for Alliant Unique powder in your specific caliber, using the same bullet weight and type of interest, an appropriate charge of Bullseye (which will not get you into any trouble) can be determined in the following manner:

For non-magnum revolvers and blackpowder rifle cartridge actions: Alliant Bullseye charge is 75% of the STARTING load of Unique. Do not exceed. This estimator is intended only for subsonic handgun and plain-based cast-bullet rifle loads in which working chamber pressure is less than 20,000 psi. (For example in Cowboy calibers, .32-20, .38-40, .44-40 and small game loads in pre-1900 center-fire cartridges such as .32-40, .38-55, .30-30 Win., .30-40 Krag, .45-70 trapdoor).

For strong, modern lever-actions, "magnum" revolvers handguns and post-1900 bolt action military rifles: Alliant Bullseye charge up to 85% of the listed maximum load of Unique, but do not exceed this. This estimator may be used with either jacketed bullets or gas-checked cast bullets where working pressures will exceed 20,000 p.s.i., but should not exceed 40,000 p.s.i. (For instance, "medium velocity" loads in .38 Special +P, .357 and .44 Magnum, GC or jacketed bullet midrange loads in smokeless rifles, .30-30, .30-40, .303 British, .30-'06, .45-70 Marlin 1895, etc.)

I validated this estimator by comparing published data in the current Alliant Powder Guide in which data was published using both Bullseye and Unique with the same components.  I compared 14 data sets using lead bullets and 24 data sets with jacketed bullets. The scatter of "Bullseye ratios" to Unique ranged from the low of 70-75% level in mild cartridges such as the .32 ACP, .38 Special, and .45 ACP target wadcutters to as high as 90% in 300-310-grain .44 Magnum loads.  The column mean "Bullseye ratio" of all 38 data sets compared was 84.7% of the maximum Unique charge. 

Unique did not show any velocity advantage over Bullseye within normal chamber pressures.  It requires more Unique to reach the same velocity and pressure as with Bullseye. For most recreational shooting the fastest powder which attains the desired velocity with minimum charge weight within safe pressure, gives a cleaner burn and is most satisfactory. 

Last edited on Tue Jul 10th, 2007 03:35 pm by Ed Harris



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In Home Mix We Trust
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Regards, Ed
73 de KE4SKY
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 Posted: Thu Jul 12th, 2007 05:21 am
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DonH
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One would have a hard time convincing me that Bullseye is not accurate in .45ACP. My .45 shooting has been solely NRA Pistol (bullseye) competition. Many national championships have been won with BE powder. My own gun will shoot a 200 gr H&G 68 over BE into one ragged hole (10 shots) on the 50 ft gallery target - offhand, one-handed. I can no longer do this due to vision issues but have done it many times. The group I'm describing is 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 oextreme measure, not c-c.
I have switched to W 231 recently due to problems with breathing the "noxious" vapors resulting from burning Bullseye. 231 is not one bit better and I believe a bit over-rated. I have never encountered a comp shooter using 7625.

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 Posted: Thu Jul 12th, 2007 04:34 pm
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RicinYakima
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Thank you both!

Ed, I understand your position, Bullseye will very well meet my needs, but I would have to buy it. Folks know I am a reloader, so they keep giving me old powder and I just have to shoot it up, so I don't disappoint them! Now If I could just be given about 10 pounds of Hi-Vel #2.

DonH, I understand your position as I shot NRA Bullseye for 11 years and always used Bullseye. Nothing shot smaller groups with less recoil and fouling was never an issue even with 38 Spl Colt Gold Cups.

Dan, I'm sorry we didn't get to visit at the National Matches this year, but we'll try harder next year in Seattle.

Ric

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 Posted: Sat Jun 14th, 2008 02:45 pm
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Wineman
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Ed,

I picked up a MN M-38 carbine at Big 5. Typical 1944 Ishvesk rearsenal from Century Imports. It is counter bored and slugs 0.314 x 0.302 somewhat of a largeish gap. I took your milatary CB article and used unsized at ~0.314 Lee 312 TL and some Loverin style 170 that cast at 0.318 (Fat 30) and sized to 0.314. The Lees were LLA lubed and the others with Speed Green. Both were shot as plainbase and with 5.5 grains of BE. I seemed to get plenty of leading, although I am not sure which bullet and lube was the issue. I think in need to get a larger diameter projectile but I may have neck clearance issues as the Cerrosafe cast shows 0.340" as max chamber neck diameter.  Groups from a rest at 25 yards were ~2" with the very rough and heavy trigger on this one. Any thoughts especially in going up to Unique loads or A2400 loads?

Thanks in advance,

Wineman

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 Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 01:36 pm
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jhalcott
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 Ed , I tried Bulls Eye in my .280 rifle with a 287405 bullet. I only used 3.5 grains and a fellow shooter called me "crazy" for using such a light charge of powder in that large case. I got very good accuracy at 50 yards (sub inch) and decent penetration on phone books. It works well for the intended purpose of rural ground hog killing.   Is there a lower limit that I should be aware of? By the way, I did NOT notice any difference in ballistics when the powder was near the bullet or at the primer.

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 Posted: Tue Jun 17th, 2008 07:59 am
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Ed Harris
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jhalcott wrote:  Ed , I tried Bulls Eye in my .280 rifle with a 287405 bullet. I only used 3.5 grains and a fellow shooter called me "crazy" for using such a light charge of powder in that large case. I got very good accuracy at 50 yards (sub inch) and decent penetration on phone books. It works well for the intended purpose of rural ground hog killing.   Is there a lower limit that I should be aware of? By the way, I did NOT notice any difference in ballistics when the powder was near the bullet or at the primer.

I think you are at the lower limit, based upon my experience in the .30-'06.  Most important is a clean bore, starting with it lightly lubricated, not dry, and having the bullets well lubes to establish a coating ala .22 rimfire, so that you don't stick a bullet in the barrel.  It sounds like you are there. 



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Regards, Ed
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 Posted: Tue Jun 17th, 2008 08:06 am
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Ed Harris
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Wineman wrote: Ed,

I picked up a MN M-38 carbine .. Typical 1944 Ishvesk rearsenal..counter bored ... slugs 0.314 x 0.302...Lees LLA lubed and the others with Speed Green. Both  shot plainbase and with 5.5 grains of BE. I seemed to get plenty of leading, although I am not sure which bullet and lube was the issue. I think in need to get a larger diameter projectile but I may have neck clearance issues as the Cerrosafe cast shows 0.340" as max chamber neck diameter.  Groups from a rest at 25 yards were ~2" with the very rough and heavy trigger on this one. Any thoughts especially in going up to Unique loads or A2400 loads?

If you are getting leading with the Bullseye loads, Unique or 2400 would probably be worse.  Make sure the barrel is clean with all residual carbon and metal fouling removed first.  I'd soak in ER or Kroil, then brush heavy and alternate patching and brushing until no more black carbon comes out, then degrease with acetone, and apply Sweets 7.62 or Shooter's Choice copper remover and repeat until no more green copmes out, then polish with Brobst JB paste or cast a lead lap and charge with 2A Clover, then repeat the ER treatment again and then patch the bore with Lee Liquid Alox and push two dry patches through the bore before firing again.  Fire about 20 foulers with fat, soft, well lubed bullet and your 5.5 of BE onto one target and see if the grouping settles down.  Then wet patch the bore with ER, check for lead.  If there is leading, repeat the whole process again.

 



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In Almost Heaven, West Virginia
Regards, Ed
73 de KE4SKY
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 Posted: Tue Jun 17th, 2008 03:04 pm
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jhalcott
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  Just so you know, I started at 3.0 grains then went to 3.3 and finally 3.5 grains. The group at 3 was erratic and over 2 inches at 25 yards. The 3.3 grain load was better but still a bit erratic. Every thing seemed to settle in when I used the 3.5 grain charge. I tried it at 25 and then at 50 yards. Lubed with LLA and no gas checks, there was no leading and the bullets were found nose on in some wet phone books. Only the slightest hint of tumbling was observed. The alloy is ACWW.

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