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Casting a bullet for 30-30  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2012 05:32 pm
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JohnM
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Wondering at the moment.
Would a bullet for a micro-groove barrel like on a Marlin want to be harder than a regular rifled barrel like on a Winchester?

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 Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2012 10:37 pm
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onondaga
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The alloy is more related to the pressure of your load than the type of rifling. Lyman #2 at 15 BHN with gas checked bullets is good right through to near factory ammo pressures and velocities.

Bullet diameter is much more important. The largest diameter  bullet that will work through your action and chamber in your rifle is the best bet. Most Micro-groove Marlins 30-30s like .3100-3105" diameter bullets. Smaller bullets generally shoot all over the place and lead your barrel up. Bullets cast from the RanchDog molds for Marlin 30-30s and sized/checked at .310" are as close as you can get to a sure thing for those rifles.

Gary

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 Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 12:22 am
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JohnM
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I would have thought that rifling might be more particular, but then it doesn't take anything special as far as jacketed I ever noticed.
I'll do some experimenting then. I want to get some light bullet loads for the most pesky of my varmints around here. The beavers in the creek around the house.

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 Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 01:52 am
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onondaga
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John,

I don't how light you want to go but the 30-30 gets its best accuracy with heavy bullets like the 170 gr. FNGC. Little bullets don't feed well either and usually have to be single loaded. Lee has a mold for a little SWC 32 cal pistol bullet mold that I always wanted to try in the 30-30. The Lee TL314-90-SWC. I'd like to try them in My single shot 7.62X39 also for a squirrel load. Link to info:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/115225/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-tl314-90-swc-32-20-wcf-32-s-and-w-long-32-colt-new-police-314-diameter-90-grain-tumble-lube-semi-wadcutter
 
The flat nose SWC should feed fine in a 30-30 tubular magazine. You would have to size these to about .310"aslo.

I have even tried OO BuckShot sized to .310 and a little fast pistol powder for a mouse load! They had to be single loaded.

Soft pure lead 150 or 170 gr flat nose bullets under 1100 fps in the 30-30 are a lot of fun and can be made to shoot very well if they are sized right. Faster than about 1200 and you are better off with #2 alloy.

Gary

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 Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 02:56 am
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JohnM
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For years I shot Speer 100grn SJ's almost like they were 22's till they got too expensive.
I'm going to try either a Lee C309-113-F or a Lee 311-100-2R and see how they shoot. Doesn't matter if they feed or not.
Most of it's 50 yards or less.
Was carrying a CZ 17 HMR, but that old Marlin 336 will be more fun.
Beavers wreak havoc on my place and they're not worth enough to get anyone to trap anymore.

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 Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 01:02 pm
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res45
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JohnM I recently purchased the Lee 32 cal. .314 TL SWC mold for use in my Mosin and SKS rifle for light plinking and small game loads.  I cast the bullet from 50/50 and give it two light coats of Lee Alox thinned with a little mineral spirits and it's worked out great.

I also shoot the little bullet in my Sav. 170B 30-30 pump gun and it's very accurate in it as well.  I coat the little bullet with one light coat of Alox and  size it to .311 for my 30-30 and 300 Sav. and there is still plenty of lube grooves to accept the second coat of Alox.

As to powder I use a range of 2.7 to 3.0 grs. of Alliant Bullseye in the X39 up to 300 Sav. size cartridges which will give reliable ignition. For 308W 30-06 and 54r I like 3.0 to 3.5 grs Bullseye.  These are not MAX load but are selected more for accuracy purposes.  Muzzle velocity is subsonic in all my rifle with any of these loads.

I also shoot the the Lee 170 gr. FN gas check bullet in my 30-30 for plinker loads I shoot the bullet as cast with the gas check left off and two light coats of Lee Alox and push it with 7.0 grs. of Alliant Red Dot,it was pretty much my general purpose shooting load in the 30-30 till I found the little Lee SWC bullet now I can shoot twice as much with half the bullet weight and powder charge.

Here is my first test target with the 30-30 and the little Lee 90 gr. SWC.


170 gr. checkless load.

Last edited on Thu Apr 19th, 2012 01:05 pm by res45

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 Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 01:19 pm
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JohnM
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30-30 is a great little round for plinking and what ever.
Does well with a wide variety of bullets and if it weren't for this constant increase in primer prices would be cheaper to shoot.
Also good brass life.
The lever action carbines are nice and light to carry around.
Got 3 of them. :)

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 Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 06:17 pm
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onondaga
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res45:

Hey Guy! that is the Lee Bullet I want to try, the 90 gr SWC has a little bit of what looks like a truncated cone flat nose. I know that mold is available in 2 or 6 cavity also. I would be trying it first  in my single shot Remington Spartan 7.62x39 with the Hodgdon TiteGroup powder I have. I will start with a chronograph and see what I get from 7 grains. That will likely be faster than 1200 fps but reduction is easy with some free online charge reduction software that I use frequently:

http://www.handloads.com/calc/reduced.asp

I am betting that the little bullet will fly well at 1150 and be a good squirrel smacker. res45, I sure can see why you like it for 30-30 with groups like that!

Gary

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 Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 11:26 pm
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6pt-sika
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About 4 years ago I had in my accumulation of no less then a dozen lever action rifles chambered for the 30-30 cartridge . And of the dozen all but one were Marlin's and of the Marlin's they were made anywhere from 1906 up to 2005 with variouse rifling . I shot cast in 3/4's of them of which there were several of the old style ballard , several of the Micro Groove and one 336CB that was of the new version of ballard rifling in a Marlin rifle .

I originally started sizing air cooled WW bullets at .309" and then I went to .310" which was  marked improvement . However one day by accident I was sizing some bullets from a Lyman factory 311041 HP mold and in the .310" dies it was causing me to bump the nose a good bit . So I got out a .312" mold sized what was left loaded some and shot them .

At the range the bullets run thru the .312" die showed a marked improvement over the .310" bullets . After that I went to sizing ALL my 30-30 bullets in the .312" die .

 

For my own use the Ranch Dog 311-165GC is hard to beat . Before he ever went into production with that mold I had one of the test molds and shot somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,000 of them at silhouettes and another 200-300 at paper . The bullet is a good one in all the Marlin barrels be it Micro or ballard .

 

Now with that being said the Lyman 311041 has no flies on it either . The same can be said for the RCBS 30-150GC as well as the Saeco 30-150 FN GC bullet . I used all of these along with the previousely mentioned Lyman 311041 HP mold and got excellent results on paper and animals . Typically all I ever loaded with any of the bullets mentioned was 20-22 grains of XMP5744 .

Oh yeah in case I forgot to mention it ALL the 30-30 cast bullets I shot were plain old aircooled wheelweights and they did great !



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 Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2012 01:30 am
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res45
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It's my understanding that the Marlins with Micro-groove rifling have over-sized grooves but that they and the lands are very shallow.

In order for the bullet to get good engraving and no slippage on those shallow lands and grooves when it enters the throat it need to be over-sized larger than the groove dia. the addition of a gas check also adds grip.

Last edited on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 01:34 am by res45

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 Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2012 02:26 am
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6pt-sika
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res45 wrote: It's my understanding that the Marlins with Micro-groove rifling have over-sized grooves but that they and the lands are very shallow.

In order for the bullet to get good engraving and no slippage on those shallow lands and grooves when it enters the throat it need to be over-sized larger than the groove dia. the addition of a gas check also adds grip.


FWIW , the entire Ranch Dog series of molds were made especially for Marlin lever actions be it Micro Groove or Ballard .

Also FWIW I've spent the last 12 years dealing with Marlin rifles pretty much exclusively with cast bullets . Slippage I found is not only stopped by oversizing but in some cases one needs to use a harder alloy or water quench . Even though a bullet may be over size enough to fill everything in some cases you need to push the bullet hard to make it stabalize and in those cases you can strip a bullet that fits the bore . I had just such a problem when I started shooting bullets over 325 or so grains in the older Marlin Micro Groove 444's with the 1-38 twist as at the time I was shooting plain old air cooled WW's . Initially I had thought I would need to harden the alloy and water quench . But after trying water quenched bullets of WW alloy I found I could push up to a 375 grain bullet in the slow twist Micro Groove 444 barrels with adequate accuracy at 100 yards for hunting purposes .



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 Posted: Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 02:30 am
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res45
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Ran the little Lee 90 SWC sized to .311 over the chrono today with the 30-30 loads using 3.5 grs. bullseye.

5 shot string
Avg.  MV 1087 fps.
Low  MV 1080 fps.  Shot #1 Cold Bore
Shot # 2,3 and 4 were dead on 1084 fps.
High MV 1104 Fps.  Shot #5
ES 24.0
SD 10.0

Last edited on Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 12:56 pm by res45

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 Posted: Fri Feb 22nd, 2013 01:56 am
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Blackpowderjimmysea
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I've been casting Lee 170 GR FN and sizing to .309" resulting is pretty bad groups. It's a new old Marlin to me and I have tried H-4895 and about the time I went to look for Varget or IMR3031 to try a different formula the crash of availability hit. The only 30-30 powder I found was Leverevolution. I'm on my sixth batch of weighed bullets and weighed powder and the hundred yard groups are still over eight inches. Anybody else tried using LVR with cast bullets. Any success?

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 Posted: Fri Feb 22nd, 2013 02:36 am
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delmarskid1
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I'd try to slow 'em down. Most of my wide groups come from driving them too fast. 30-30's aren't usually picky about powder. I've used bullseye through 3031 and most worked at least to minute of baseball. Getting the bullets up to .310 or larger would be good. Good luck getting that from the lee mold. They run smaller than most.

Last edited on Fri Feb 22nd, 2013 02:39 am by delmarskid1



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 Posted: Fri Feb 22nd, 2013 06:43 am
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onondaga
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Blackpowderjimmysea:

The Lee 170 FNGC mold can easily be honed. Mine, after honing drops .3125" and I can size/check bullets at .3105" for 30-30, 30-06 or 3125" cor 7.62X39

Search Honing Lee molds. I use the mold and cast with a hex nut on top of the mold with the sprue plate open and pour lead through the nut hole to fill it to brim. This makes a cast honing tool that can be turned with a wrench. I apply powdered pumice and dishsoap made into a paste to the driving bands on the tool. Close, take 2 turns with light handle pressure. Open, remove tool and flush only mold cavity. Close tool back in and take 20 turns. Flush , warm the mold and cast a bullet then measure the bullet. This may take 5-10 cycles of abrading and lots of washing but make a cast bullet to check every cycle so you don't go bigger than you want.

My mold originally dropped .309" but now makes great bullets I can size for several rifles. I hone my sizing dies too to get just the size I want. A simpler method accomplishes that.


Gary

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 Posted: Sat Feb 23rd, 2013 06:33 am
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grouch
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I've shot Lee's 113gr in a couple of 30 30's with reasonable success. For a close up plinker, 14 - 16gr of H110, for higher velocity 24gr or so of WC845. Maybe about that much 3031 would be a good starting point.

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 Posted: Thu Jan 30th, 2014 09:30 pm
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Dirtybore
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I believe the Lyman #31141, 170 gr gas check flat nose bullet was designed specifically for the 30-30 lever actions.   It's flat nose is specifically for use in tubular magazines.

John R

Last edited on Thu Jan 30th, 2014 09:32 pm by Dirtybore

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 Posted: Thu Jan 30th, 2014 10:01 pm
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JeffinNZ
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Before Jim sold CBE he cut me one of his 309 162 moulds. It throws a .311 bullet in 40-1 alloy that when GCed is nigh on 170gr and shoots VERY well in my Husky bolt gun.

Don't micro grooves do best with a very long bear surface?



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 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 12:51 pm
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Coydog
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JohnM wrote: For years I shot Speer 100grn SJ's almost like they were 22's till they got too expensive.
I'm going to try either a Lee C309-113-F or a Lee 311-100-2R and see how they shoot. Doesn't matter if they feed or not.
Most of it's 50 yards or less.
Was carrying a CZ 17 HMR, but that old Marlin 336 will be more fun.
Beavers wreak havoc on my place and they're not worth enough to get anyone to trap anymore.

I have that mold of C309-113-F and I have it feed and shoot good.I size it to .309 .No leading and on target.It is out of a marlin 336 30-30 .For the data i use  i need to change for what they said because it did not chamber and also had to drop what the started load was.I seated the boolit deeper and also drop it below starter load and it shoots fine and no problem feeding.i also notice that marlin is a tight chamber also so I use the Lee Factory Crimp die and also I use one also in my Marlin 44mag and it took care of the problem.For the 44mag I use the same load I use in my redhawk.



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