Action/Barrel Tools

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  • Last Post 27 March 2009
JetMech posted this 03 February 2009

I looked in the Brownells catalogue and an action wrench for Springfield action and a barrel vice was $450!!! Is there anyone out there who makes less expensive tools? Are there any alternative ways to do it? I could probably make a barrel vice, but the action wrench is something else.

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BFB posted this 27 March 2009

"Oh yeah, if doing a barrel job for a customer, beware that some barrels might require an hour or two a day for 2 weeks to get apart without a torch or other violent means.  ...... and that 4 foot pipe extension for a handle is not a joke."

Ken ... I'm not sure what you mean ... Are you saying that one may have to leave the applied torque overnight and give it another go on the following day? Or perhaps you are saying that one may break their wrenching device and have to make another?

BTW ... To all, excellent thread!

I am getting ready to break down a Carcano barrel/receiver so I am all ears.

Bill

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Nora posted this 15 March 2009

The witness marks only apply to the original barrel. If any thing other it is used, tighten to spec.,  ruffly 50 psi. and check head space. If it's short a finishing reamer is all you will need. If it's in excess you'll need to have the shoulder turned back by someone with a lathe, that knows how to use it. Then re cut with  a reamer.

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TomG posted this 11 March 2009

Pbbb, 

I'd clean the threads, action face and apply some grease to the threads. Carefully bring it up to the index marks and see if it's tight.

How tight?  Certainly tight enough that it won't come unscrewed when firing. I'm guessing that  65 ft. lbs. of torque is plenty. But, I wouldn't go past the index mark to get it it it's tight.

The idea behind torqueing a threaded connector is to put enough stretch or pre load on the threaded joint that it won't move under the applied working load. Example:

 On an internal combustion engine, when the cylinder fires, the cylinder pressure tries to blow the head off the block.  If the head bolt isn't pre stretched to a tension greater than the combustion pressure on the head, the bolt will constantly be stretched and retract with each combustion cycle and due to it constantly working, will eventually fail.  If it's already stretched further than the load applied by the combustion pressure, it won't move and won't fatigue.  

On a gun barrel, the force tries to move the barrel forward off the action. Somewhere down the line the gun designer had to determine how much torque needs to be applied to keep the barrel threads stable under the applied load. If I were you, I'd see if I could find the spec. and set it to that value. I'm not at home so I don't have access to my library. It seems that a Mauser needs to be torqued to 65 ft. lbs.  Just relying on memory......... which might be way off.   

On the benchrest rifles I made of customers, I  taught them to switch barrels using an internal action wrench and give it two hits on the end of the wrench handle with a 3 lb. hammer. Believe it or not, this came out around 65 ft. lbs. break away torque. Again, this method is not for the mechanically challenged who have no “feel” for such things.

Tom

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Pbbbfischer posted this 10 March 2009

Tom,

Thanks for the help. How tight is tight enough. Is it a torque setting or should you start with the witness marks 1/16” or 1/8” away and tighten till they line up? Those are big threads and you won't be able to clock very far once you contact the face of the receiver. I think I understand how to fix it if they don't line up but my question is where to start.

Pbbb

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CB posted this 10 March 2009

Mechanically Challenged??

Yet another reason I like Savage's, set the headspace and tighten the nut...

An even better reason to shoot a scoped gun... Without iron sights on the barrel of course...

Those are some great tips... Makes me want to take a project like that to a gun smith that knows what he is doing.. That way I dont mess it up and I can get back to the real task at hand.. Dispatching lead down range!

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JetMech posted this 10 March 2009

Those are some great tips, Tom  :dude:

Thanks.

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TomG posted this 10 March 2009

PBB

If the sights don't have to be exactically straight up and down, going past the index marks doesn't bother anything.  When you have to index the barrel to the action again, it becomes a pain in the butt.  You can't be past much more than the width of the index line or the shooter will complain that the sights are canted.  That's not very much to be off.  IOW, it shows up fast if it's not right on.

The correct way to fix it is to cut most of a thread width off the shoulder and then index it again so the sights are straight up and down. This entails deepening the chamber to get the headspace correct again as well as other stuff like bolt nose clearance. 

Most chamber dimensions show allowable headspace ranges of + or - .004” from the mean dimension. Sometimes I've solved the problem by making a 1 or 2 thousandths shim to go between the action face and the barrel shoulder to get the index marks to line up again. This will increase the headspace by that amount and is generally OK on a military rifle as long as the headspace remains within spec.  If that's not possible, the right way to fix it is to set it back and rechamber. 

I'd be real careful when resetting the barrel so as not to stretch the threads by overtourqeing it. 

Tom Gray

PS.  One cheap and dirty way to fix the problem is to take a small punch and carefully move the pulling side of the threads toward the barrel shoulder a few thou.. However, this procedure is not for a person who is mechanically challenged or heavy handed. 

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Pbbbfischer posted this 10 March 2009

While we are on the subject. When reinstalling the barrel on the 1903, I would think that the witness marks should line up when you are done. How far apart when starting to tighten the barrel can these witness marks be? 1/8", 1/4", 1/2"? There must be a point at which you will never be able to tighten the barrel to line these up. If they are too far apart, is the proper procedure to face off the barrel then dress the chamber?

Pbbb 

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JetMech posted this 10 March 2009

I've got 1903 tools coming from CMP. The barrel vice is the best deal. For $50, it's all steel construction. No wood blocks.

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CWME posted this 10 March 2009

I just bought the Brownells switch head wrench with a head to fit the M1 Garand. I paid $114 for the handle and the one head. New heads are $50 for the different actions.

Fit the action perfectly and with the 3/8 bolts and had a really secure grip.

I am sure that using the 3/8 plate is fine for actions that are not super tight but you are localizing a lot of force on an area that is 3/8 across versus an inch across with the brownells.

It was worth the extra $ for me to get the Brownells kit. I don't want to risk destroying an action. But I paid extra for that piece of mind... 

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JetMech posted this 15 February 2009

Thanks, Brian. A picture's worth a thousand words, or in this case, several hundred dollars. :dude:

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big boar posted this 15 February 2009

In the photos the holes are through holes to secure a 1” x 3' steel bar. I only used 1/4 or 5/16 screws to secure the wrench to the bar and they held up no problem. Not a beautiful tool but it did the job for me. Thanks Brian

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big boar posted this 15 February 2009

Hi Bill, Here are the photos of the action wrench.

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big boar posted this 06 February 2009

Dollar Bill, sorry I can't send a photo, it's really simple. Pretend you have a piece of 3/8” steel plate about 3"X6". If you could magically push your barrelled action, muzzle first, through the plate up to the action lug and have that exact profile left in the plate, that's it. I then drilled/tapped 2-3 holes in the plate so I could fix a 1” square bar to it to use as a handle. I've done this on a Parker Hale and Tikka. If you want, send me your address and I'll send a drawing, it really is not hard to do. Dan's right, if I could afford it and was going to do several or if the action was frozen to the barrel, Brownells are the nicest to deal with. I'm a millwright and do some work on weld and paint robots. You would not believe the price of tooling. Yesterday my foreman told me the price of a tool we need for a job was over $5000. It could be made in the shop in about 3-4 hours. Even if you buy your wrench, try making one just to show yourself what can be done by hand. A drill press and good files are wonderful tools. As I've said before, just look at the hand work gunsmiths did 100 years ago. Sure it takes some time but you really don't need a CNC mill/lathe to do some good work. Nice to have though.

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R D posted this 06 February 2009

Bill; While everything you said is true, a good workman can meet of exceed the quality of today's tools. That's why I cast my bullets.  Like every thing else we have fewer quality tools every day.

Rodger

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JetMech posted this 06 February 2009

Good point, Dan. While I've made many specialty tools for aircraft work, my 7 tool boxes are filled with snap-on and other high end tools. You can certainly tell the difference when using them, and some things are too valuable to risk by going cheap.

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CB posted this 05 February 2009

Bill, a fine tool is a possession to behold. The costs of purchasing a correct alloyed and tempered wrench and barrel block is well worth the investment. It will practically pay for itself with one use. I use the barrel clamp with the bushings offered by Brownells and the action wrench with switch bottoms for different actions, great tools.

Believe me, action wrenches and barrel vises will have to take quite a bit of abuse unscrewing mil-surps or even 50 year old Remington 700s . Better to have the correct tooling than destroying an action or barrel. Using good tools is like enjoying a fine wine   :D  ............Dan

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JetMech posted this 05 February 2009

Ken, Same issue as Antietamgw. The PM doesn't recogize you. Please send me a PM so I can reply. Thanks.

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JetMech posted this 05 February 2009

That's right up my alley, BB, but I don't quite understand. Your tool holds the action on the outside?

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big boar posted this 05 February 2009

I've made 3 action wrenches fron 3/8 steel plate 3-4” wide 6-8” long. I just carefully scribed the action profile on the plate, chain drilled some 3/16” holes inside the profile to get rid of most of the meat and then filed to get a VERY good action fit. I drilled and tapped a couple of holes to secure a 3' piece of 1” square steel bar and presto, they worked perfectley everytime with no possible damage to the action. If you file to deep you can shim with no problem. After carefully scribing the profile on the plate it only takes about 2 hours to make, REALLY easy to do. Total cost was about $7 depending on where you get the steel. Most people don't realize what can be done with simple hand tools especially files. Many think you must have specially made expensive tooling. Look at what gunsmiths did 200 years ago.BB

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