Using smokeless and cast bullets in the 45-70 ??

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  • Last Post 06 June 2012
2frogs posted this 07 April 2012

Courious as to if anyone here is using smokeless powder and to what bullet you may be using in the 45-70?

I have been shooting black powder for several years and just thought I would like to give the smokeless a try..

Not sure what powder to use. My bullets range from 400 to 535 grains...Not looking to push them too fast,just wanting to see what accuracy I might be able to get...

Also none of them are gas checked..Just plain based...20 to 1 and some 30 to 1 don't want to lead the barrel if I can help it...So if you have a favorite load and want to share your finding,I will appreciate......:dude:

Or maybe I should be using a much lighter bullet..I will only be competeing out to 250 yards with this rifle..I have very little experince with the lighter bullets so how about some ides here...That you gentlemen:cba:

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Buzzard Bill posted this 07 April 2012

I shoot 27 gr. of Accurate 5744 with a plain base 405 gr. cast bullet. It is about 1400 fps.,pleasent to shoot and very accurate.

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mike morrison posted this 07 April 2012

saeco 525 gr over 25gr imr-4198 gives about 1225fps. i have shot this to 1000yds. same load with 500gr and 550gr. a guy i usta shoot with used 25gr 5744 and same bullets. our sight settings to 500 meters were the same. identical guns. m

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2frogs posted this 07 April 2012

mike morrison wrote: saeco 525 gr over 25gr imr-4198 gives about 1225fps. i have shot this to 1000yds. same load with 500gr and 550gr. a guy i usta shoot with used 25gr 5744 and same bullets. our sight settings to 500 meters were the same. identical guns. m

That sounds pretty impressive..I may give that a try.

How are you loading this ,if I may ask?

What I have tried so far with some success,is neck sized WW case-Powder and seated to certain depth and no crimp what so ever..550 grain bullet and some 405's with 5744 powder and SR 4759 accuracy so-so Thanks for your reply.....

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6pt-sika posted this 08 April 2012

I've used XMP5744 in MArlin lever rifles , in an original 1884 Trapdoor as well as in a couple Shiloh and C Sharps rifles . And they are alwats light to medium at the most .

 

For “real” loads in my 45-70 Marlin I now use H322 for everything from a 300 grainer to a 550 grainer . But none of these are for the mild mannered .:cool:

Oh yeah all the bullets I cast for the Marlin are GC . I do however use the Gould 330 grain PB HP sometimes and the Lyman 366 grain RN PB in the Trapdoor .

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2frogs posted this 08 April 2012

6pt-sika wrote: I've used XMP5744 in MArlin lever rifles , in an original 1884 Trapdoor as well as in a couple Shiloh and C Sharps rifles . And they are alwats light to medium at the most .

 

For “real” loads in my 45-70 Marlin I now use H322 for everything from a 300 grainer to a 550 grainer . But none of these are for the mild mannered .:cool:

Oh yeah all the bullets I cast for the Marlin are GC . I do however use the Gould 330 grain PB HP sometimes and the Lyman 366 grain RN PB in the Trapdoor .

How are you getting that 550 in your Marlin? I can ' load anything bigger than a 416 grain....Man that oughta to rockin you teeth..If you have any left that is...lol

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6pt-sika posted this 08 April 2012

2frogs wrote: 6pt-sika wrote: I've used XMP5744 in MArlin lever rifles , in an original 1884 Trapdoor as well as in a couple Shiloh and C Sharps rifles . And they are alwats light to medium at the most .

 

For “real” loads in my 45-70 Marlin I now use H322 for everything from a 300 grainer to a 550 grainer . But none of these are for the mild mannered .:cool:

Oh yeah all the bullets I cast for the Marlin are GC . I do however use the Gould 330 grain PB HP sometimes and the Lyman 366 grain RN PB in the Trapdoor .

How are you getting that 550 in your Marlin? I can ' load anything bigger than a 416 grain....Man that oughta to rockin you teeth..If you have any left that is...lol If my memory serves I load something in the neighborhood of 35-37 grains of H322 with the BallistiCast 462-550GC . The crimp groove is set to be used in an 1895 . I also load the BRP 462-465GC and the Ranch Dog 460-425GC with no problems or ill effects .

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6pt-sika posted this 08 April 2012

Incidently I ran across one fellow on either http://www.leverguns.com>www.leverguns.com or marlinowners that had BallisitiCast make a 462-565GC by running the cherry in a little deeper when they cut his mold . And he reports no problems using his in a MArlin 45-70 either .

Matter of fact reading about what he did got me intrested enough to get the 462-550GC mold . And while I will admit it's NOT the one I go to when I want to go out and shoot for fun I do shoot it relatively often .

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6pt-sika posted this 08 April 2012

Here's a link to the thread I have on this forum about the BRP 462-465GC as well as the BallistiCast 462-550GC .

 

http://castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_topic.php?id=6092&forum_id=18>http://castbulletassoc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=6092&forumid=18

 

My memory was off a tad about how much H322 I used with the BallistiCast 550 grainer . It was 39-41 grains !

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mike morrison posted this 08 April 2012

2frogs wrote: mike morrison wrote: saeco 525 gr over 25gr imr-4198 gives about 1225fps. i have shot this to 1000yds. same load with 500gr and 550gr. a guy i usta shoot with used 25gr 5744 and same bullets. our sight settings to 500 meters were the same. identical guns. m

That sounds pretty impressive..I may give that a try.

How are you loading this ,if I may ask?

What I have tried so far with some success,is neck sized WW case-Powder and seated to certain depth and no crimp what so ever..550 grain bullet and some 405's with 5744 powder and SR 4759 accuracy so-so Thanks for your reply.....

what you describe with a tp wad or dacron (small amount) to keep the pwder at the primer.

if you are shooting targets you do not need a heavy load. 6point's loads are verry punishing for plinking but what you need for certain game. i would use them accordingly.

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onondaga posted this 08 April 2012

2frogs:

The 405 is mostly everybody's favorite. But I have a honed out to .461"  Lee 340 gr. RN-F that shoots super.  My personal opinion to get the best accuracy from that plain based bullet is to use H4895 and BPI Original Ballistic filler that acts like a quasi gas check and very significantly protects the base of plain base bullets and seals them very well in the bore.  The filler is easily compressible and makes the H4895 burn much cleaner than 5744 or even REL7 in the 45-70.

Gary

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2frogs posted this 08 April 2012

No black powder loads with the 405 bullet ?

Whats up with that ?

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6pt-sika posted this 08 April 2012

mike morrison wrote: 2frogs wrote: mike morrison wrote: saeco 525 gr over 25gr imr-4198 gives about 1225fps. i have shot this to 1000yds. same load with 500gr and 550gr. a guy i usta shoot with used 25gr 5744 and same bullets. our sight settings to 500 meters were the same. identical guns. m

That sounds pretty impressive..I may give that a try.

How are you loading this ,if I may ask?

What I have tried so far with some success,is neck sized WW case-Powder and seated to certain depth and no crimp what so ever..550 grain bullet and some 405's with 5744 powder and SR 4759 accuracy so-so Thanks for your reply.....

what you describe with a tp wad or dacron (small amount) to keep the pwder at the primer.

if you are shooting targets you do not need a heavy load. 6point's loads are verry punishing for plinking but what you need for certain game. i would use them accordingly.

In my early days of hunting with a cast bullet rifle I used mostly SR4759 and then XMP5744 .

I've used the Gould 330 grain PB HP with 31.5 grains of SR4759 to take a nice deer and the recoil wasn't bad at all .

Later I used the Ranch Dog 460-350GC with 34 grains of XMP5744 to take another nice buck . And finally that same year I used the Ranch Dog 460-425GC with a charge of 32 grains of XMP5744 to wallop a spike .

All three of these loads literally flattened the deer they were fired at and all three were shot at 60 yards or less .

For what I call medium velocity/recoil loads these are the ticket .

 

When you want more speed you need to step it up with H322 or something similar . And as we all know to get more you pay more , this case in more recoil . But it isn't enough to make it unmanagable .

 

As to my full bore H322 loads I kinda softened them a bit . I found an extra stock for my circa 1972 Marlin 1895 and put a nice THICK KickEez pad on the back . That takes the sharpness outta the recoil with the RD 460-425 BRP 462-465 and the BC 462-550 . Although to be honest when loaded full tilt the RD 460-425 would crack you the worst from an unpadded rifle . My rifle with that padded stock from the bench with the BC 550 grainer is more of a BIG push rather then harsh recoil and the BRP 465 grainer is the same but to a slightly lesser degree .

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6pt-sika posted this 08 April 2012

onondaga wrote:   Lee 340 gr. RN-F that shoots super.   

 

This was THE FIRST bullet I ever cast for the 45-70 . Shortly after I also got the Lee 405 grain PB mold as well .

 

Both of these I would cast of aircooled WW"s and then tumble lube as cast in LLA . Shot them in a Marlin 1895CB with a Lyman tang sight and amazingly enough they shot very well for me when loaded with SR4759 .

 

I still have those two molds , but I don't think I've used them in almost 10 years . Very decent molds for the learning process .

 

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onondaga posted this 09 April 2012

6pt-sika:

I've had a lot of fun with the Lee 340.  It did take a leap in accuracy and velocity when I honed it out to .461 and started using aluminum PB gas checks. This year I got the RD .460-350 FNGC. They shoot great and the much bigger flat nose is an extra measure of bang flop.

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Buzzard Bill posted this 10 April 2012

Hay !!! Gary

Where did you get the aluminum gas checks, what size plain base bullet will they fit and how did you attach them? Looks like something I would like to play with.

Thanks Bill

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onondaga posted this 10 April 2012

Buzzard Bill:

The plain base aluminum gas checks for my .458  Win Mag cast bullets are from:   http://sagesoutdoors.com/index.htm>http://sagesoutdoors.com/index.htm

They were experimental at the time he sent me some to test for him. These checks are made with .008” aluminum and , I believe, also fit 50 cal gas check design bullets like the .500 S&W mag..

They are large over the base of the Lee 340 gr bullet and I install them with a Lee push through bullet size/check die BASE FIRST and push the flatnose with the die ram. They will not go nose first through the die I used.

I am not sure if James has gone into production with these 45 caliber plain base gas checks or not. I am sure he will answer you if you contact him through his site from the link above.

The plain base checks allowed me to substantially increase my velocity and retain my 1 inch group size at 50 yards. I am very happy with them. My old sweet spot for accuracy was at 1610 fps with that bullet, then,  when I began with the plain base checks I was able to increase my charge and found equal accuracy up at over 1850 fps with my H4895 loads in .458 Win Mag.

My Lee mold for that bullet is honed and drops bullets at .461". I check/size them at .4595” for my rifle that slugs .4570” G to G.

Gary

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TonyT posted this 06 June 2012

Oiur local clubs matches are at 50 yards and I use a powder puff load - 11.6 gr. UNIQUE, RLRP behind a 405 gr. cast lead bullet for ca 1100 fps. It's a nice mild load, easy on the shoulder.

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