Another PB Accurate Mold

  • 16K Views
  • Last Post 14 August 2012
pat i. posted this 13 June 2012

Below is a new PB mold I had Tom at Accurate cut for me hoping I can finally get a plain base bullet to shoot in a fixed cartridge. I haven't had much in the way of luck with the two previous attempts I made with bullets sans gas check so decided to design my own with the hope of success. I plan on using this mold in a 30-06 Win Model 670. What I did was download a print of Tom's clone of the Saeco 315 and went at it with a Photoshop program I have. My print was a little rougher than Tom's cataloged print pictured below, 31-190B, but the design was there.

Using a chamber print I figured the 06 throat tapers .001 for every .020 in length, or thereabouts. Using that as my starting guide I made the .050 wide front band .303, dropped back .100 from the front of that band to the front of the next and drew that at .308 by .100 wide. I finished up with two .310 bands. One .070 wide and the base band at .100 wide. The grease grooves are all .050 to be able to use one or more if needed without flooding the thing with grease.

The bore ride section is drawn at .300 but in this gun I needed .301 or a bit more. Tom's tolerances are -.000,+.0015 on the body and +.000,-.0015 on the bore ride section. My experience has been that he runs close to the minimum on the bore ride section and right on on the the body so I ordered my mold “Body As Drawn, .3025 Bore Ride Section” and got a bore ride section at .301 and the rest right on the money.  

I don't plan on trying a lot of powders right off the bat and for the moment am sticking with Bluedot for the simple reason that I have a pound and a half of it and there's no reason it shouldn't work if everything else is right. P-wads seem like a good idea and I'm using Wilson dies and a single case for loading so my kit will be minimal. I have some ready to go with one lube groove filled with LBT Blue which should be more than enough lube. Alloy consists of water dropped WW. Some people might say that's too hard but I use water dropped WWs in my 32 S&W Long and don't have a problem. Will try the gun tomorrow morning and report back.

The whole purpose of this little project is to take a minimalist approach to shooting in the new Hunting Rifle Class while being competitive. I was a big advocate of this class and hopefully can get something together to show that you can get by with the bare minimum in equipment and work and use something you already have sitting in the cabinet. The gun is as sold with nothing at all done to it except adding a 36x Weaver scope and the equipment used to get the bullet ready is next to nothing. I'm using a lubesizer with an oversized die for lubing convenience but wouldn't have any trouble at all pan lubing. I'm also using a Lee push through die to size to .3095 but don't know if that's necessary or not considering the bullet casts at .310. I just like to size bullets for some reason and had a die laying there that sizes to .3095 when using water dropped WWs. Everything I need to shoot a match fits in a small tool box and either clamps or sits on the bench when shooting.

Print and bullet are below. 

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
CB posted this 14 August 2012

John Alexander wrote: Dan,

Interesting posts.

You obviously have found the 45/45/10 tumble lube better than the straight Lee Liquid Alox or you wouldn't be going to the trouble. What advantages do you get?

I have the makings and have been fconsidering making a batch.

John

My old 32-20 bore is rough, pitted bad all through the bore. The 45/45/10 tumble lube has a high content of Carnuaba wax which coats the rough bore nicely. The 45/45/10 didn't make any difference in my 30-06.:(

Attached Files

John Alexander posted this 14 August 2012

Dan,

Interesting posts.

You obviously have found the 45/45/10 tumble lube better than the straight Lee Liquid Alox or you wouldn't be going to the trouble. What advantages do you get?

I have the makings and have been considering making a batch.

John

Attached Files

Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 13 August 2012

dan willems sez       This summer I borrowed the modified Saeco 315 again


it would be interesting to lathe-slice the  long nose on the saeco  bullets down to  about  one-half diameter extension in front of the bore engraving diameter.....  i think  a lot of our problems come from the semi-liquid bullets getting distorted at launch, ... then the long nose just wobbles around at random spirals all the way to the target ...   maybe, sometimes ... ( g ) .

if you would ship me 10 or 20...or ... i would be glad to trim them in my hardinge collet lathe.   

ken ( box 156, Lorimor, iowa 50149 )

Attached Files

CB posted this 13 August 2012

This summer I borrowed the modified Saeco 315 again and in the this summer's heat started casting early in the mornings for about an hour and a half and got up a good supply casted in #2 Alloy this time. I tested in my Remington 700ADL 30-06 that I had been shooting in Hunter class. The rifle is old and shot out some and I always have leading problems with it, even with gas check CBs. I tried the same load as the 03-A3 using Alliant 20/28, did the usual .2gr up and down but had a terrible time with neck tension smashing the base of the PBBs. So I annealed the necks on my 30-06s and also on my 32-20s while I was at it.

I was using a PVC wad under both calibers. Its a pretty tight diameter, so it will hold the seating depth in the case with a loose neck. I can pick up the loaded round by the cb, but probably if I shook it they'd come out. Anyway, I got everything lined up perfect, but still the same accuracy, about 1.5", not competition accuracy. I could get some nice clusters in a group. I know the Saeco 315 is fussy about what kinda cb lube I use when using it with a gas check, so I tried several lubes. They all made a difference in accuracy, but I was still getting leading problems, mostly mid range in the barrel. I've given up....heck with it. I'm getting ready to go prairie dog shooting!

The 32-20 in the old Savage is a success story. Using Accurate Arms #5 with 5.2grs at 1,200fps I can consitantly get 1.5” groups. Using 45/45/10 tumble lube I get no leading at all. This makes a really good off-hand rifle and load for our Wind Hill matches. I do not use the gas check and use a PVC wad under the cb. Hey, maybe I'll try the Lee cb in the 30-06? :D!!!......Dan

Attached Files

CB posted this 13 August 2012

Hey Pat, I've been trying to make the PBBs work in my '06 also. Gerry had a Saeco 315 opened up a few years ago to a plain-base mould. I wanted to shoot it in my 03-A3 for Miltary competition. I borrowed the mold and cast a up a bunch in 20:1 alloy. I tried a few loads around 1,000fps but couldn't get the 180gr cb to stabilize and ended up at a velocity around 1,250fps using Alliant 20/28, 9,2gr-10gr. I could get 1"-1.5” groups regulary, but always had leading trouble.

This year I've been shooting the Lee 90362, a 110gr cb made for 30 calibers but cast .312” so it fits in my Savage 32-20. I shot it without the gas check. I like the design better than the 32-20 molds offered by Lee because I seem to have better accuracy with a full groove diameter cb. Here are the two CBs coated with Recluse's 45/45/10 formula tumble lube.........Dan

Attached Files

pat i. posted this 13 August 2012

pat i. wrote: 4060may wrote: A question...is the rule in the CBA for fixed ammo , the bullet cannot be shaken from the case? Is a very light tension allowed?

 

Chuck, I got a ruling on this and there's no shake test.

Attached Files

linoww posted this 11 August 2012

I am on a quest for a 30-06 for light production for plainbase.We shall see if i do any better.I doubt it.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

Attached Files

nimrod posted this 11 August 2012

Keep up the good work I'm counting on you to get all the bugs worked out so that I wouldn't have near as much trouble and aggravation. I suppose if it were easy there would be lots of experts already doing it.

Richard

Attached Files

pat i. posted this 11 August 2012

4060may wrote: A question...is the rule in the CBA for fixed ammo , the bullet cannot be shaken from the case? Is a very light tension allowed?

Chuck I've received some feedback on your question above and should have a definitive answer soon.

Not much progress to report on the PB front. Have had it out a few more times without much improvement. Have some ideas to try and if something pops I'll let people know but there's no sense in just posting pictures of targets that look just like the one before or telling of things I did that ended up doing nothing. Who the heck would have thought these things were going to be so hard to get shooting. If I would have known things were going to be this much of a hassle I would have looked for something a little easier to aggravate myself with but I'm in now and there's no backing out. I'll give it another 20 years or so and if I can't get it shooting by then I'll throw in the towel.

Attached Files

pat i. posted this 03 August 2012

Not much to see. Same bullet with sligtly different dimensions. A little bigger bore ride and a .316 base band so I can size it up and down to fill up the chamber. Waiting for something from Lee and then will try it out.

Attached Files

Pigslayer posted this 02 August 2012

pat i. wrote: Got my new mould today! I don't know how Tom does it. I'll cast some tomorrow morning to see how she runs. How about some pics of that new bullet!

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

Attached Files

4060may posted this 02 August 2012

Pat Well here goes The top targets are from the 32-40, and the bottom targets are from the 30-40 you should be able to click on them to read the notes...hopefully

the small group is what the gun can do with breech seated Jerry Barnett bullet

The tong tool and bullets

Attached Files

pat i. posted this 02 August 2012

4060may wrote: A question...is the rule in the CBA for fixed ammo , the bullet cannot be shaken from the case? Is a very light tension allowed? Chuck,

 I'm looking forward to hearing about your progress and seeing the pictures. As far as your question above I always thought the shake test was part of the rules because at the first match I attended I was asked to do it but I went and looked at the rules and see nothing about shaking anything. I think both of us are going to have to find what the rule is.

 

Attached Files

4060may posted this 02 August 2012

Pat I started to foo with fixed ammo in my 32-40 1-14 twist, but decided it was not in the spirit of the game

The only 1-10 twist gun I have with a scope is a 30-40Krag No.3 Ruger original barrel

I have shot Cast Bullet Silhouettte with this gun since 1991, has had at least 7000 rounds thru it, a lot of it Unique...really does a job on the throat....so I can size bullets to .311 an they almost don't touch the throat...but still surprisingly well....

A question...is the rule in the CBA for fixed ammo , the bullet cannot be shaken from the case? Is a very light tension allowed?

I have been using WW571...because it has a burn rate close to No.9..but is much cleaner burning...and I have some

The bullets I have tried only because they are the only plain base .30 cal molds I have ...are a SAECO Pope copy and  the original Lyman bullet 308206 for the 1896KRAG

pictures coming

Attached Files

nimrod posted this 24 July 2012

Well now looks like you are going to get serious with this stuff. How long and how heavy is that new bullet. I'm going to bet it's the best effort yet. Keep up the good work!:dude:

Attached Files

pat i. posted this 24 July 2012

Got my new mould today! I don't know how Tom does it. I'll cast some tomorrow morning to see how she runs.

Attached Files

pat i. posted this 19 July 2012

I've decided to go at this from a different angle which means I'm spending more money chasing a dream. Last night I ordered a mould from Tom for my bullet but with the bore ride at .303, first band at .304, second and third at .309, and base band at .316. I'm going to fill that chamber and throat up with bullet and see if that's the secret to getting these things to shoot. I have absolutely no idea if that's what's needed but up to this point nothing else has seemed to work so I have to do something. My fragile ego can only take so many disappointments.

Nothing to lose except a few bucks if it doesn't work and plenty to gain if it does. I'll keep you posted. Back to day old bread and Ramen soup for the next few weeks I guess.

Attached Files

John Alexander posted this 19 July 2012

George,

Interesting targets. The first target you said was horrible but no comment on the second one. What is the scale -- average size of groups or size of your aiming points?

I don't whether to cheer or offer sympathy.

John

Attached Files

linoww posted this 18 July 2012

This AM out with 10g TrailBoss and three bullets.This time sized in a .311 die.

Top  Lyman 311410 HP (30 carbine bullet) never expected much but i occasionally get it to shoot in some rifles.

Middle SAECO #630 (140g FP) group three had a low shot that was REALLY a called shot.I was a bit surpried this light one did well.

Bottom SAECO #529 (180 slightly tapered FP) why  the last 10 shot group had better cluserting i dont know

A bit more promise but nothing spectacular.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

Attached Files

pat i. posted this 15 July 2012

George don't feel bad I went out shooting this morning and did about the same as you. I didn't bother to take pictures because it wouldn't have been worth it. There's got to be some secret to these bullets because you can do the same exact thing you did last time and the results go from half way decent to horrible for no apparent reason. I'll just keep at it and see what happens. If nothing else it'll keep me humble. Next time out I'll try some 5744.

Attached Files

Show More Posts
Close